absolute truth?

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  • #350394
    Avatar of Fuddyduddy
    Fuddyduddy
    Participant

    [i]Originally posted by rasy[/i]

    [quote]
    [i]Originally posted by Fuddyduddy[/i]

    Well any form could have something to do with a moral dilemma for example the Form “GOOD”.

    you mention the shadows are copies of a form, the form being objects and illusions being shadows. absolute truth here are the objects causing the shadows. but not all absolute truth are in abstract realm. the truth here are the objects, they are at your grasp. remove the objects and u will remove the shadows, place the objects and the shadows will appear. it does not have to be that abstract.

    but in regards to your response what would be a copy of this form “good” be? what would an illusion of this form “good” be?
    [/quote]

    You cannot take the allegory of the cave literally, an allegory is suppose to convey a message with symbolic figures. But, I’m not going to judge how you are interpreting what The cave means, but if you are going to understand what I’m trying to explain to you, then you are going to have to understand my interpretation of the symbolism.
    The chained man is his condition, mentally chained to a perspective.

    The light of the blazer is the light of knowledge.

    Again, the Objects are the forms, and the shadows are copies.

    The cave itself is the abstract realm, while the wall is the physical realm.

    Just because you move the objects doesn’t mean they won’t exist, they are permanent, that is why they represent a form and absolute truth, they are not destroyed, changed, or decayed. Just because the Atom wasn’t proven or discovered until the 19th century doesn’t mean it never existed. So, if there is no shadow cast by the object, then obviously the light hasn’t reached it yet.

    Please provide an absolute truth that is not abstract and exist in physical realm.

    A copy of the form Good would be anything that has a characteristics of Goodness.

    #350404
    Avatar of Kadin
    Kadin
    Moderator

    no. because there’s no absolute truth.

    [i]Originally posted by rasy[/i]
    by arguing there is no such thing as absolute truth, is that in itself considered absolute truth?

    បានចូលសាលា មានសញ្ញាប្រ័ត មិន ប្រាកដថាមានសមត្ថភាពក្នុងកិច្ចការ នោះទេ
    #350415
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    Who tells that?

    #350426
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    I agree with FD, it’s a paradox, something absolute is relative to something else. Then again, when something is relative, it is relative to something absolute….I kind of picture truth in a way our solar system works. The sun is the center, aka “absolute truth” then the other planets are the relative truths…they are in their own absolute truths but relative to the sun…. BUT the sun is relative to what’s outside the solar system, and so on.

    [i]Originally posted by Fuddyduddy[/i]

    [quote]
    [i]Originally posted by rasy[/i]
    by arguing there is no such thing as absolute truth, is that in itself considered absolute truth?

    Yes, it’s called a paradox. You know like, Can god create a mountain that he cannot move? If he can, then well mr omnipotent all powerful can’t move it, but if he can’t build a mountain he cannot move then well he can’t build it. So, either way he cannot do it. I’m sure you heard that paradox somewhere. [/quote]

    #350436
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    anicca – Impermanence is not relative. There is not one phenomena which is permanent or lasting. Everything decays. Everything that arises also decays. There is nothing that is lasting. All composed phenomena (thing, mental or physical) are anicca.

    dukkha – As there is not a single lasting thing, all composed things are unsatisfactory, subject to dissolving and therefor stressful without satisfaction

    anatta – All mental and physical phenomena are impersonal, with out any inherent self, do not exist out of them self.

    [Message last modified 10-07-2011 12:25am by hanzze]

    #350446
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    what about energy? It cannot be destroyed or created, only transformed. Sounds permanent and absolute yet relative (in that it changes forms).

    [i]Originally posted by hanzze[/i]
    [b]anicca[/b] – Impermanence is not relative. There is not one phenomena which is permanent or lasting. Everything decays. Everything that arises also decays. There is nothing that is lasting. All composed phenomena (thing, mental or physical) are anicca.

    [b]dukkha[/b] – As there is not a single lasting thing, all composed things are unsatisfactory, subject to dissolving and therefor stressful without satisfaction

    [b]anatta[/b] – All mental and physical phenomena are impersonal, with out any inherent self, do not exist out of them self.

    [Message last modified 10-07-2011 12:25am by hanzze]

    #350455
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    Good question. :-) So if it is lasting, can you keep it? Can you store it?

    Impermanent does not mean, there is nothing. For example, your body does not disappear after your physical death, but change into different forms. No lasting does not mean that it will disappear into nothing. Impermanence means never ending change. So nothing is permanent, energy is impermanent. It does not stay, it arises and decays. Kinetic energy comes to electric energy, electrical maybe to thermal energy and so on. But it is never lasting, maybe it is lasting for a long period, but always changing and does not last.

    #350465
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    oh I see, theoretically energy is ‘stored’ in this reality because it can’t be created or destroyed…but at the same time it’s never (as far as I know) in its ‘original’ form. It’s either KE, PE, heat forms, etc. so it is more ‘impermanent’ than permanent if you look at say potential energy ‘decaying’ into kinetic energy or/and ‘wasted’ heat from friction, ie it’s always changing.

    [i]Originally posted by hanzze[/i]
    Good question. :-) So if it is lasting, can you keep it? Can you store it?

    Impermanent does not mean, there is nothing. For example, your body does not disappear after your physical death, but change into different forms. No lasting does not mean that it will disappear into nothing. Impermanence means never ending change. So nothing is permanent, energy is impermanent. It does not stay, it arises and decays. Kinetic energy comes to electric energy, electrical maybe to thermal energy and so on. But it is never lasting, maybe it is lasting for a long period, but always changing and does not last.

    [Message last modified 10-07-2011 05:55am by agent0o5]

    #350474
    Avatar of rasy
    rasy
    Participant

    [i]Originally posted by Kadin[/i]
    no. because there’s no absolute truth.

    [quote]
    [i]Originally posted by rasy[/i]
    by arguing there is no such thing as absolute truth, is that in itself considered absolute truth?

    [/quote]

    saying there is no absolute truth would be your(kadin) absolute truth.

    #350485
    Avatar of rasy
    rasy
    Participant

    [i]Originally posted by Fuddyduddy[/i]

    [quote]
    [i]Originally posted by rasy[/i]

    [quote]
    [i]Originally posted by Fuddyduddy[/i]

    Well any form could have something to do with a moral dilemma for example the Form “GOOD”.

    you mention the shadows are copies of a form, the form being objects and illusions being shadows. absolute truth here are the objects causing the shadows. but not all absolute truth are in abstract realm. the truth here are the objects, they are at your grasp. remove the objects and u will remove the shadows, place the objects and the shadows will appear. it does not have to be that abstract.

    but in regards to your response what would be a copy of this form “good” be? what would an illusion of this form “good” be?
    [/quote]

    You cannot take the allegory of the cave literally, an allegory is suppose to convey a message with symbolic figures. But, I’m not going to judge how you are interpreting what The cave means, but if you are going to understand what I’m trying to explain to you, then you are going to have to understand my interpretation of the symbolism.
    The chained man is his condition, mentally chained to a perspective.

    The light of the blazer is the light of knowledge.

    Again, the Objects are the forms, and the shadows are copies.

    The cave itself is the abstract realm, while the wall is the physical realm.

    Just because you move the objects doesn’t mean they won’t exist, they are permanent, that is why they represent a form and absolute truth, they are not destroyed, changed, or decayed. Just because the Atom wasn’t proven or discovered until the 19th century doesn’t mean it never existed. So, if there is no shadow cast by the object, then obviously the light hasn’t reached it yet.

    Please provide an absolute truth that is not abstract and exist in physical realm.

    A copy of the form Good would be anything that has a characteristics of Goodness.
    [/quote]

    i will provide a absolute truth that exist in physical realm. The earth is round and the slight degree tilt of the earth helps balance our seasons and help create an earth that is habitable for humans to sustain life. This does not have to be abstract in order to grasp this truth.

Viewing 10 posts - 21 through 30 (of 91 total)