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  • #352368
    Avatar of bowang
    bowang
    Participant

    who determines what’s biblical or not? surely the verses are all there and they are using the same bible yet there are many interpretations even within christianity. that is why there are the many denominations. in fact, there are tons of rapture interpretations for example with supporting verses pulled from the bible refuting one another on when or if its even going to happen. you could spend all day googling and reading them. my point is this, to discuss the bible without the holy spirit in mind, doesnt get very far. the holy spirit teaches and deciphers the text in context even revealing whats mysterious to some.

    so we are in agreement, all things are possible even the impossibles. perhaps we both are members of the 144000, the more the merrier. or maybe you and i are not even chosen. i can only tell you i answered truthfully. you could have asked more clarifying questions if you were curious as to my reasoning because the purpose of this thread is answer tough questions which i have been doing in good faith. instead, you were quick to condemn his brother in christ even siding with the unbelievers. that in itself, should be examined by you with the guidance of the holy spirit.

    imagine Christ telling his brothers, He’s the living God. instead of asking him why, some would rather condemn him because he didnt fit what was written in accordance to their own understanding of the text. to them it was impossible.

    I know its possible because i actually believe in Christ even 2000 years later.

    [i]Originally posted by rasy[/i]
    @ bowang…for every point i make regarding the bible you say u can refute it by googling it.
    If you are going to refute me on matters pertaining to the bible, refute me by using the bible.
    Yes all things are possible by God, it is possible you and I are one of the chosen and also possible u and I are not.

    [Message last modified 09-30-2011 04:38pm by bowang]

    #352378
    Avatar of bowang
    bowang
    Participant

    physical reality is only limited to the imagination. creativity comes from a higher source which is spiritual. as it manifests, creativity becomes reality. therefore nothing is impossible because in the spirit world, everything is possible. it is infinite realities within infinite possibilities, it is Absolute. God is the impossible made possible, he is the Creator. He is the consciousness behind quantum mechanics. He is the Architect behind the master program running simulations of all the possibilities of existence in all of his realms. His will is infinite made finite. His predestination is your freewill.

    in fact, its easy for God to turn water into wine or a chicken into a duck, when he wills it because he comes from a higher plane. It happens in the spirit and manifests in the flesh. it is no different than an unbeliever regenerated into a believer. he changes in spirit resulting in his changes in physical attributes to fit the spirit for he is born again into a new creature. a person who is depended on drugs, after being saved, will change his life completely around, no longer a creature addicted to the flesh but a creature of his newly found spirit.

    i could say, an unbeliever will always be one, an unbeliever is destined for a place without God, it is in their nature because they are incapable of change but then i remember i was once an unbeliever myself and i did change from the inside out into a new creature in Christ. the impossible made possible. so i remain faithful in optimism.

    in christ one changes in a life time which sounds impossible at first but does happen with the many witnesses out there. in buddhism, one changes after being reincarnated in another life time with accounts from people all over the world. perhaps there is a great misunderstanding on how this phenomenon occurs.

    God is running simulations of all of the different realities and possibilities looking to save those willing in the infinite realms of existence because His Will is to save those elected. it’s a possibility that throughout the years, people somehow were able to accidentally tap into different realms or alternate realities. they in in turn interpret this to be them in another life time. yes this is true to a certain extent but is it another lifetime when it is happening at the same time?

    the impossible and possible, all happening at the same time where there is no time just pure Consciousness of God. Absolute, Our Father in Heaven.

    [i]Originally posted by hanzze[/i]
    possible not possible:

    [b][url=http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai/chah/insimpleterms.html]The Chicken & the Duck[/url][/b]

    Two people see a chicken and a duck. The first person wants the chicken to be a duck, and the duck to be a chicken, but it simply can’t be. Throughout their life, it can’t happen. If the first person doesn’t stop thinking in this way, he’ll have to suffer. The second person sees the chicken as a chicken, and the duck as a duck. That way there’s no problem. When your views are right, there’s no suffering.

    The same holds here. Anicca — things that are inconstant — we want to make constant. As long as they’re inconstant, we’re sad. The person who sees that inconstant things are simply inconstant can be at ease. There’s no problem.

    Ever since the day of our birth we’ve been running away from the truth. We don’t want things to be the way they are, but we can’t stop them from being that way. That’s just the way they are. They can’t be any other way. It’s like trying to make a duck be the same as a chicken. It’ll never be the same. It’s a duck. Or like trying to make a chicken be the same as a duck: It’ll never be the same. It’s a chicken. Whoever thinks that he wants to change things like this will have to suffer. But if you think, “Oh, that’s just the way it is,” you gain strength — for no matter how much you try, you can’t make the body permanent or lasting.

    So what means possible or impossible to you?

    #352388
    Avatar of rasy
    rasy
    Participant

    [i]Originally posted by bowang[/i]
    who determines what’s biblical or not? surely the verses are all there and they are using the same bible yet there are many interpretations even within christianity. that is why there are the many denominations. in fact, there are tons of rapture interpretations for example with supporting verses pulled from the bible refuting one another on when or if its even going to happen. you could spend all day googling and reading them. my point is this, to discuss the bible without the holy spirit in mind, doesnt get very far. the holy spirit teaches and deciphers the text in context even revealing whats mysterious to some.

    so we are in agreement, all things are possible even the impossibles. perhaps we both are members of the 144000, the more the merrier. or maybe you and i are not even chosen. i can only tell you i answered truthfully. you could have asked more clarifying questions if you were curious as to my reasoning because the purpose of this thread is answer tough questions which i have been doing in good faith. instead, you were quick to condemn his brother in christ even siding with the unbelievers. that in itself, should be examined by you with the guidance of the holy spirit.

    imagine Christ telling his brothers, He’s the living God. instead of asking him why, some would rather condemn him because he didnt fit what was written in accordance to their own understanding of the text. to them it was impossible.

    I know its possible because i actually believe in Christ even 2000 years later.

    [quote]
    [i]Originally posted by rasy[/i]
    @ bowang…for every point i make regarding the bible you say u can refute it by googling it.
    If you are going to refute me on matters pertaining to the bible, refute me by using the bible.
    Yes all things are possible by God, it is possible you and I are one of the chosen and also possible u and I are not.

    [Message last modified 09-30-2011 04:38pm by bowang][/quote]

    when there is a doctrine or interpretation that is outside of the widely accepted interpretation, it will always be more suspectable to being labeled a misinterpretation. Just because there are many other doctrines and interpretations that exist does not mean each and everyone of them will be widely accepted, or has to be accepted. To know the truth about anything there must be a standard to measure it to. If every doctrine and interpretation was offered equal credibility then truth then turns relative and subjective…thus no absolute truth. You even acknowledge your claim to yourself is outside of the widely accepted doctrine. You can talk to me or a JW or u proablby experienced this already. I’m just pointing out what you probably experienced.

    In terms of taking side of non-believers, Im just taking a side that something is very suspectable. And the non believing KCer’s happen to be suspectable as well.
    And you said I could have asked u more clarifying questions if I was curious. But I did, I asked what denomination u were, what doctrine or what authority u are using, what fellowship u are apart of who may support your claim. You mention through dreams, through feelings and through googling. Now if you told me you were part of a fellowship of other believers or or a church whom all supported your claim that would appear different. But you said u dont have any fellowship but just with yourself, or dont belong to a church body. So everything is just from you and your using yourself as a standard to mearsuring yourself. I encourage you to be part of a fellowship for that is what the bible calls us to do through out the letters of paul and the gospels.

    also you cant honestly use the illustration of Christ telling His brothers He is the living God and they initially didn’t believe Him. Your expecting me to believe you using this illustration? That I should believe you for the very same reason I believe in Christ? You are not Christ and you using this as your basis causes me more confusion.

    but ill be honest with you, whatever illustration u use a good one or confusing one I already made my stance that your view of the gospel is different from my view, which happens to be the more widely accepted view (the 144,000 would be of Jewish descent).

    but just out of curiosity let’s say u and I are the 2 of the 144,000. where would we go when Christ return and where would every other believer go?

    #352400
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    What do you think?

    Would it be good if one believes and he believes wrong, as a believe will be always a believe and nothing more?
    If there is a way to know, wouldn’t it be better?

    Mostly a prove is a way to check if something is right or only a believe. So how did you prove things?
    Actually a crazy man in an psychiatric hospital, also just believes. The Khmer rouge did believe, the Nazis did believe. A killer believes. So they all believe, but non of them knows.

    They all have been brainwashed, so that they did what was to believed. Understanding is different from believe. To attain understanding you need to watch and observe things for your own.

    Actually there is quite no indices that only one thing is not just a believe, for the most you write here. Its neither logical, nor is it propound, it does not makes sense and it is also not useful.

    I know that it is important that simply minded people need a believe to have something to hold on, but at the moment one is able to walk, I guess it is better to start to look around and prove things to understand them.

    Such an attitude is not different to a crazy soldier, he believes and runs and acts. You should listen to some talks of catastrophically leaders. The basis of those world disasters, have been promises. Simple minded people a caught with promises and act only to archive it.

    So do you think it is needed to turn of his brain to believe, or could a wise also follow wise sayings if he is captive to understand the meaning behind?

    There is no starvation just if one has a believe. The tool of believe is just to get the child starting to act in the right way. If he acts rightly he will understand. If he stays on the level of believe, there will be no attainment at all.

    [i]Originally posted by bowang[/i]
    physical reality is only limited to the imagination. creativity comes from a higher source which is spiritual. as it manifests, creativity becomes reality. therefore nothing is impossible because in the spirit world, everything is possible. it is infinite realities within infinite possibilities, it is Absolute. God is the impossible made possible, he is the Creator. He is the consciousness behind quantum mechanics. He is the Architect behind the master program running simulations of all the possibilities of existence in all of his realms. His will is infinite made finite. His predestination is your freewill.

    in fact, its easy for God to turn water into wine or a chicken into a duck, when he wills it because he comes from a higher plane. It happens in the spirit and manifests in the flesh. it is no different than an unbeliever regenerated into a believer. he changes in spirit resulting in his changes in physical attributes to fit the spirit for he is born again into a new creature. a person who is depended on drugs, after being saved, will change his life completely around, no longer a creature addicted to the flesh but a creature of his newly found spirit.

    i could say, an unbeliever will always be one, an unbeliever is destined for a place without God, it is in their nature because they are incapable of change but then i remember i was once an unbeliever myself and i did change from the inside out into a new creature in Christ. the impossible made possible. so i remain faithful in optimism.

    in christ one changes in a life time which sounds impossible at first but does happen with the many witnesses out there. in buddhism, one changes after being reincarnated in another life time with accounts from people all over the world. perhaps there is a great misunderstanding on how this phenomenon occurs.

    God is running simulations of all of the different realities and possibilities looking to save those willing in the infinite realms of existence because His Will is to save those elected. it’s a possibility that throughout the years, people somehow were able to accidentally tap into different realms or alternate realities. they in in turn interpret this to be them in another life time. yes this is true to a certain extent but is it another lifetime when it is happening at the same time?

    the impossible and possible, all happening at the same time where there is no time just pure Consciousness of God. Absolute, Our Father in Heaven.

    Do you think it is possible to life like Jesus has told, and why do people believe in god and Jesus and don’t act according the advices. They simply put there anger and greed into the words of wisdom and steal and kill like the soldiers telling our master had said. But actually the master did not.

    So what is more important, to act or believe? And please try to be honest to your self.

    [quote]
    [i]Originally posted by hanzze[/i]
    possible not possible:

    [b][url=http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai/chah/insimpleterms.html]The Chicken & the Duck[/url][/b]

    Two people see a chicken and a duck. The first person wants the chicken to be a duck, and the duck to be a chicken, but it simply can’t be. Throughout their life, it can’t happen. If the first person doesn’t stop thinking in this way, he’ll have to suffer. The second person sees the chicken as a chicken, and the duck as a duck. That way there’s no problem. When your views are right, there’s no suffering.

    The same holds here. Anicca — things that are inconstant — we want to make constant. As long as they’re inconstant, we’re sad. The person who sees that inconstant things are simply inconstant can be at ease. There’s no problem.

    Ever since the day of our birth we’ve been running away from the truth. We don’t want things to be the way they are, but we can’t stop them from being that way. That’s just the way they are. They can’t be any other way. It’s like trying to make a duck be the same as a chicken. It’ll never be the same. It’s a duck. Or like trying to make a chicken be the same as a duck: It’ll never be the same. It’s a chicken. Whoever thinks that he wants to change things like this will have to suffer. But if you think, “Oh, that’s just the way it is,” you gain strength — for no matter how much you try, you can’t make the body permanent or lasting.

    So what means possible or impossible to you?

    [/quote]

    [Message last modified 09-30-2011 09:53pm by hanzze]

    #352410
    Avatar of bowang
    bowang
    Participant

    rasy,

    .
    i agree with you, there must be some standards to measure things by or else its all relative, i am no proponent of relativism. I am a proponent of revelations. i do get it from a philosophical perspective. i understand your point completely and you shouldnt feel bad for finding me highly suspicious. that is your right. however i want to share my side of the story as well. whether it is accepted or not is not a concern of mine because it is not that important to me. i am here to answer some questions to the best of my abilities. this is my way of giving back to the community. this is my simple fellowship in the age of the internet with our khmer people on KC. i am walking and communicating with the sinners and unbelievers sharing my witness and testimony in an honest manner. we are communicating and learning. its not your traditional fellowship where you meet in a building and talk and pray. but i am in the midst of fellows and i do pray for my answers. and i dont typically do things according to traditions.

    my measuring stick is the holy spirit. he teaches and i simply follow. however as an example, if joe blow claims to have seen an alien, i wouldnt discount his eyewitness account simply because he’s cambodian and saw it on pch and cherry. he may be alone therefore no one else can vouch for him because thats the nature of an alien visit. it would make me even more curious and suspicious as to why he would make such a thing up. i would ask him to describe what he saw, his feelings, his background. i would ask everything i could imagine in order to see if he’s telling the truth or not. i may even resort to my gut feeling about the matter when all else fails. I wouldnt call him crazy or condemn him simply because most alien contacts are made by white people in the middle of a hay field when consulting the UFO manual. it doesnt mean he’s crazy or he is lying especially if he’s very coherent not high or drunk. so when you ask for the denomination, doctrine, and basing everything on that you are essentially doing the same thing. you are discriminating him based on a standard you abide by. it’s like a homeless going up to a banker asking for money for a hot dog, and the banker dismissing him because in his mind, the homeless will use it to buy alcohol. yeah 9/10 this is true but what if this homeless was really hungry and really wanted to buy food. so the best measuring stick is not a certain doctrine, denomination, but the truth itself guided by the holy spirit aka that gut feeling. i would have been okay with i just don’t feel you bowang. but when you bring up interpretations, doctrines and things like that, i have to comment a bit on it. i have given you alternative examples that is not PC in the church of how a cambodian guy on pch and cherry may have seen something and at the same time not be crazy or a liar.

    i used the example with christ as a parable. the 144000 thing came out of me saying i am not christ but i do believe in Him. as for your last question about what will happen to the 144400 when christ returns, a lot of it is still a mystery to me. i hope to get a better grasp of it but right now i do not know for sure because i am still learning and praying for greater understanding. i only know Jesus is coming back and more will be revealed as the time approaches.

    you know how i said before about the 144000, God does things 2 folds, spiritual and physical. i think the rapture will happen in the same fashion. the remnant will know for sure through a spiritual rapture in a “this is it” moment. there will be be some sort of sign which will convince the remnant that this is the time at hand while most of the world are too busy just surviving. they will remain on earth during the trials and tribulations physically to help spread the words of Christ but their spirit is already with God. and so even if they’re persecuted, their physical pain in overshadowed by their spiritual bliss. when Christ returns, it is at the point they will be physically raptured to be with Christ on a new earth. this new earth i think is located somewhere in the orion constellation where christ went to prepare his Kingdom.

    [Message last modified 09-30-2011 11:06pm by bowang]

    #352420
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    Could it be that some just follow what seems good for them, but not the whole thing? A kind of rejecting the doctrine, a kind off “not believing”?

    #352430
    Avatar of khemrin
    khemrin
    Participant

    1/ I was not talking about Komoto dragon ,when I asked you who created you?

    2/ When you said you were created by God, I was expecting MIRACLE.

    2a/ When I talked about miracle, I am talking about the one that happened within its own sovereignty. No other factors, natural or technology or human or being, such as sex or sperm implant, etc…The one that was like Adam was created, I imagined the scenario where you were just dropped form the sky. or purpose(s)…

    2b/ I don’t even consider Jesus conception as miracle. The simply reason is that because it was not independent, or on its own sovereignty. It depends on “Virgin” Mary and poor Joseph.

    Then I would like you to try again, if you think you were created by God: By which mean?

    ps: Please do not add the preaching of how you found God. I know how God was supposed to be found.

    [i]Originally posted by bowang[/i]
    I never said i know it all. i am actually learning as i am answering your questions. no i was not born of immaculate conception although a virgin birth is certainly possible and has happened in nature. i am sure my mom and dad like all people had sex and 10 months later, i was born. thats the normal way to conceive by the way. so all my life i knew my mom and dad as my creator, “my preah” as dictated by the buddha which i was a firm believer in. i was an ambassador of the khmer culture and traditions in fact.

    i grew up not knowing Christ. But since God has a plan above my comprehension, he slowly reeled me back to him by breaking me down completely. So when i was down and out ready to give up. he revealed Himself for the first time in my life to be a true and merciful God. i truly felt Love for the very first time. i felt a purpose. after that, he taught me things i never knew or considered before. God had his creations in mind before they were even created. he then created them, and they eventually returns to him like a lost sheep in the wildness as he is calling for his stock. Creation happens in God’s mind, and then it is manifested in the physical material world, when that breaks down, it goes back to the Sources. it is a constant process or refinement.

    #352440
    Avatar of rasy
    rasy
    Participant

    @ bowang, fellowship is biblical…whether u consider it traditional or not traditional, fellowship with believers is biblical. Whether through traditional means or untraditional means we are to have fellowship with one another. the bible says so and that is the standard I use.

    In regards to you using Holy Spirit as a standard,

    the gospel of John says the Word was God, God was the Word. We should based our standards on God’s word. Your claim appears to contradicts the bible, contradicting God’s word. The Holy Spirit also speaks through the word, the bible. Since the Holy Spirit speaks through the bible, your claim appears to contradict the Holy Spirit. But the bible can not contradict itself nor the Holy Spirit.

    in regards to your alien from outer space analogy it only works if aliens exist. if one claims to experience aliens, but aliens objectively don’t exist, then they already lost the debate.
    (but if you bowang believe in aliens then that is a whole other issue)

    but since u are adamant on your position, it seems like u want me to hear why u make this claim, what 1 or 2 experiences that support your belief?

    #352452
    Avatar of bowang
    bowang
    Participant

    that is the definition of a miracle. something supernatural, out of this world. lets agree to disagree. i answered faithfully and i apologies if they’re not clear enough. forgive me khemrin.

    [i]Originally posted by khemrin[/i]

    1/ I was not talking about Komoto dragon ,when I asked you who created you?

    2/ When you said you were created by God, I was expecting MIRACLE.

    2a/ When I talked about miracle, I am talking about the one that happened within its own sovereignty. No other factors, natural or technology or human or being, such as sex or sperm implant, etc…The one that was like Adam was created, I imagined the scenario where you were just dropped form the sky. or purpose(s)…

    2b/ I don’t even consider Jesus conception as miracle. The simply reason is that because it was not independent, or on its own sovereignty. It depends on “Virgin” Mary and poor Joseph.

    Then I would like you to try again, if you think you were created by God: By which mean?

    ps: Please do not add the preaching of how you found God. I know how God was supposed to be found.

    [quote]
    [i]Originally posted by bowang[/i]
    I never said i know it all. i am actually learning as i am answering your questions. no i was not born of immaculate conception although a virgin birth is certainly possible and has happened in nature. i am sure my mom and dad like all people had sex and 10 months later, i was born. thats the normal way to conceive by the way. so all my life i knew my mom and dad as my creator, “my preah” as dictated by the buddha which i was a firm believer in. i was an ambassador of the khmer culture and traditions in fact.

    i grew up not knowing Christ. But since God has a plan above my comprehension, he slowly reeled me back to him by breaking me down completely. So when i was down and out ready to give up. he revealed Himself for the first time in my life to be a true and merciful God. i truly felt Love for the very first time. i felt a purpose. after that, he taught me things i never knew or considered before. God had his creations in mind before they were even created. he then created them, and they eventually returns to him like a lost sheep in the wildness as he is calling for his stock. Creation happens in God’s mind, and then it is manifested in the physical material world, when that breaks down, it goes back to the Sources. it is a constant process or refinement.

    [/quote]

    #352461
    Avatar of bowang
    bowang
    Participant

    let’s take a step back and look at the issue at hand from outside of the box like Christ did since he was not of this world. lets not use logic, doctrines, but rather trust in our heart and ask in prayer for understanding from the Holy Spirit. God’s words are clear. it’s in the bible translated into many different languages. the Holy Spirit is what binds His words together into such a powerful witness. It is the rosetta stone making God’s words come alive. to an atheist, reading the bible, Gods words are dead, merely letters having no profound meaning or wisdom. however, under the guide of the holy spirit, the word becomes alive, eternal, bridging the many translations now speaking to its readers in the language of the heart. the word and the spirit doesnt contradict each other when understood in the greater context for the greater good. to us its a paradox, to God its all about love over legality.

    i have nothing against fellowship, if it brings you closer to Christ. more power to you. however you shouldnt be constraint by certain doctrines to where you are forgetting the root reason for the fellowship in the first place. it is to help your relationship with Christ. this relationship is a personal one. no third person can ever come in between this holy union. if this relationship is strong, a fellowship is not a necessity. to dwell in the small thing is to fall into the trapping of legalism just like the pharisees. it is wrong to discount a man’s entire faith simply because he doesnt belong to a group, in the traditional sense. perhaps his fellowship is with others just like him having the same spirit scattered throughout. perhaps this is what matters.

    the key is to look at things fresh from the outside in instead of propagating whats comfortable. the truth is stranger than science fiction. I know God exist as well as fallen angels. aliens are real too. how do you know aliens do not objectively exist? i am sure many unbelievers would say the same about Christ. I have talked about fallen angels and aliens in regards to the occult and end time prophecies. just another name but its the same game.

    i am adamant in the truth even if it seems unreal. it takes faith to bring what is unreal into reality. i just decided jump into it. i’ll give you 3 reasons for why i believe in 3 dreams visions.

    1. before i my conversion. saw myself in an ocean. heard the voice it said. ” i am GOD”

    2. i was given an egg with my name on it, i opened it, and it said ” Christ is coming back”

    3. saw Christ in outer space wearing a robe with a green sash flying towards earth

    4. many more reasons personal to me, but i would rather share the 3 for now.

    [i]Originally posted by rasy[/i]
    @ bowang, fellowship is biblical…whether u consider it traditional or not traditional, fellowship with believers is biblical. Whether through traditional means or untraditional means we are to have fellowship with one another. the bible says so and that is the standard I use.

    In regards to you using Holy Spirit as a standard,

    the gospel of John says the Word was God, God was the Word. We should based our standards on God’s word. Your claim appears to contradicts the bible, contradicting God’s word. The Holy Spirit also speaks through the word, the bible. Since the Holy Spirit speaks through the bible, your claim appears to contradict the Holy Spirit. But the bible can not contradict itself nor the Holy Spirit.

    in regards to your alien from outer space analogy it only works if aliens exist. if one claims to experience aliens, but aliens objectively don’t exist, then they already lost the debate.
    (but if you bowang believe in aliens then that is a whole other issue)

    but since u are adamant on your position, it seems like u want me to hear why u make this claim, what 1 or 2 experiences that support your belief?

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