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  • #352174
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    So does those quotes points to a joy that is based on the pain of others?

    In our normal life we mostly have fun on the labor of others or for the sake of suffering of others. A joke is a sample. Ordinary fun is always founded on stealing of any kind.

    If one had worked hard for his bread, there is no problem to enjoy it. But how many earn there bread by them self. I dont think that there are farmers online on KC *smile* and I don’t think that many really here really know what is real work. If one knows real work he would save his power just to provide him self and his family of what is needed.

    The joy that you refer to (spiritual joy) is a noble joy. Actually we should not mix it with ordinary joy. In Pali it is called “piti” and is a a joy that is free of karma (action that causes an effect). Spiritual joy is nothing but experiences peace. It is the same if you come home and have real earned food, even if it is poor food you will have peace you will have joy.

    So was your intention of having fun ordinary joy or the desire for spiritually joy?

    Why do you think that emotions make you feel alive? Dont you think they just cover the reality and make you god unseen?

    There are some unanswered question also *smile*:

    What makes you believe that a man could not life without a wife and a wife not without a man?

    What makes you believe that emotions would lead to peace? Can you bring up only one emotion that does not lead to harming of others and one self?

    What makes you believe that logical thinking and reasoning brings you to some amount of reality?

    [i]Originally posted by bowang[/i]
    you could live a life without a spouse and kid but it sure is fun to have them around. people don’t have sex with their husbands or wives in celebration for their love because it’s boring. there is some fun “sabai” involved that’s not only carnal but also spiritual. people celebrate birthdays for their kids because it’s a fun event, to see the joy on their kids face opening gifts. having fun and experiencing life with the ones you love ultimately bring forth knowledge and wisdom. jesus in one of the celebrations even turned water into wine! think about that. you could take this account literally or figuratively. the problem arises when people over indulge in their own carnality neglecting their spiritual responsibilities. much knowledge comes from walking the “dark” side but one must be careful when walking in such a territory because its very easy to fall prey due to the trappings and allures of the material world thus neglecting to hold fast to their spiritual anchor. there needs to be balance, like skillfully walking a tight rope. one must be mindful of his own limitation and potential.

    in regards to emotion, it is like a raging storm. it is destructive able to sink ships and destroy all in its path. however with the greatest of all storms there also comes the greatest of all peace. our emotions make us feel alive. we cry, we laugh, we are happy, and we are sad. it is not always a bad thing. dont take life too seriously, live it one moment at a time and God will do the rest. i too have to constantly remind myself this..

    Ecclesiastes 3:13
    And also that every man should eat and drink, and enjoy the good of all his labour, it is the gift of God.

    Matthew 25:21
    His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

    [quote]
    [i]Originally posted by hanzze[/i]
    What makes you believe that a man could not life without a wife and a wife not without a man?

    What makes you believe that emotions would lead to peace? Can you bring up only one emotion that does not lead to harming of others and one self?

    What makes you believe that logical thinking and reasoning brings you to some amount of reality?

    Can you quote one sentence where Jesus had taught his disciples that fun leads to peace? Or fun is the source of reality?

    [Message last modified 09-26-2011 02:56am by hanzze]

    [Message last modified 09-27-2011 06:27am by bowang][/quote]

    [Message last modified 09-27-2011 07:55am by hanzze]

    #352181
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    Just a reminder: “i’ll try to keep it short and fun” *smile*

    #352192
    Avatar of khemrin
    khemrin
    Participant

    Bowang,

    First you never said you were created by God. I asked you three times. :) You kept saying,”I AM WHO I AM”. Just imagine if God asked Adam, WHO CREATED YOU? and Adam kept answering,”I AM WHO I AM”…Then you should appreciate my patience rather than insulting it. :D

    What a flaw of such creation as that of yours. What a different about 2000 years later that such creation has been altered and deviated from the original principle that of Jesus who respect and revered his parents and their faith, and yet here you are just gone hay-wired…I feel sorry for you my friend. I hope God can help you.

    [i]Originally posted by bowang[/i]
    it’s not my fault you have the patience of a flea and the intellect of a snail. i told you already God created me. if that’s not good enough for you, too bad so sad?

    [quote]
    [i]Originally posted by khemrin[/i]

    Please stop testing my patience :D

    WHO CREATED YOU?

    Please answer it properly.

    [quote]
    [i]Originally posted by bowang[/i]
    and i simply said I AM WHO I AM, i cant get anymore more simpler than that. next question please…

    [/quote]
    [/quote]

    [Message last modified 09-27-2011 12:09pm by khemrin]

    #352202
    Avatar of n_n1985
    n_n1985
    Participant

    It is sinful asking the Son of God such question Khemrin. Bowang a descendant from the sky with the mission to save the Earth. Unlike us ordinary humans and Jesus existence through Mary Bowang is a unique type who revolutionised the 21st century.

    #352211
    Avatar of rasy
    rasy
    Participant

    @ bowang-
    no one is suggesting to be politically correct, but i do suggest correct doctrine. Correct doctrine and politically correct are two different things. To be a Christian in America now is politically incorrect, because Christian claim their doctrine is the absolute truth. claiming your way is the only way is politically incorrect. But the book or revelation clearly shows in text the 12,000 from each 12 tribes each clearly from Jewish descent. The tribe of Judah, Reuben, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Manasseh, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph and Benjamin. I do not see Cambodian on the list, you happen to be born Cambodian. You deduct the reasoning for yourself…its ok if we are one or not one of the 144,000, we can still fully embrace the gospel and its purpose and have true peace and joy.

    In regards to your church ques…I do not belong to any denomination myself and have fellowship with a group of fellow believers (non-denomination) in a small home. i dont like big congregations but there is nothing wrong with being part of one. the bible tells us to have fellowship with one another. Jesus ministry involve Him having fellowship with the people, the sick, poor, hurt and not hurt. A lot of His ministry involved fellowship with people . We need fellowship, it helps keep us accountable also, so the fact that you dont have fellowship you should really assess that.
    But you still have the capacity to believe what you want to believe, i am not you and do not live in your shoes and can’t speak from your experience to make you believe what you believe. but one thing u and i agree on and thats the truth is always is protected by body guard of lies. truthfully search the truth with the most unselfish intentions and it will be revealed, and practice the truth for the purpose of His glory…and when seeking the truth we encounter flaws or inconsistencies then that is not a bad thing but a good thing

    [Message last modified 09-28-2011 02:41am by rasy]

    #352221
    Avatar of bowang
    bowang
    Participant

    the object of joy is to enjoy in the moment. that is how i would define the joy i have in mind. you on the other hand keep on referring to this joy as the cause of pain for others. your definition of joy stems from a buddhist perspective where karma is involved and the concept of living in the moment, the expression of emotion, is foreign. to you joy and suffering are the cause and effect which in turn feed off of each other driving a never ending cycle. whether joy negatively or positively impact another is irrelevant in the process of realizing it. you are over thinking these basic emotions without feeling it because of how your mind has been trained to work. you have developed a mechanism to suppress what is natural. there is no need to live a reality in logic because we are emotional beings. even a vulcan must occasionally enjoy a good game of chess. suppressing it may do more harm than good in the long run. such a perfect reality is too good to be true even the tower of babel crashed into the ground.

    to me joy is living in the moment. there is a time and place for both spiritual and physical joy. answering your question brings me spiritual joy because as i strive for the answer, i am also learning from the spirit something i never knew before. to me this is joyful because there is new creation in new thoughts, ideas, and realities. i also enjoy seeing my son and daughter living life. Some may not have the desire for a wife or to have children because their joy is simply rooted in the spiritual like some of the prophets.

    one of the most powerful emotions leading to peace is remorse. remorse comes after hurting another, not before, and when realized and confessed may lead to forgiveness, redemption, peace, and salvation.

    [i]Originally posted by hanzze[/i]
    So does those quotes points to a joy that is based on the pain of others?

    In our normal life we mostly have fun on the labor of others or for the sake of suffering of others. A joke is a sample. Ordinary fun is always founded on stealing of any kind.

    If one had worked hard for his bread, there is no problem to enjoy it. But how many earn there bread by them self. I dont think that there are farmers online on KC *smile* and I don’t think that many really here really know what is real work. If one knows real work he would save his power just to provide him self and his family of what is needed.

    The joy that you refer to (spiritual joy) is a noble joy. Actually we should not mix it with ordinary joy. In Pali it is called “piti” and is a a joy that is free of karma (action that causes an effect). Spiritual joy is nothing but experiences peace. It is the same if you come home and have real earned food, even if it is poor food you will have peace you will have joy.

    So was your intention of having fun ordinary joy or the desire for spiritually joy?

    Why do you think that emotions make you feel alive? Dont you think they just cover the reality and make you god unseen?

    There are some unanswered question also *smile*:

    What makes you believe that a man could not life without a wife and a wife not without a man?

    What makes you believe that emotions would lead to peace? Can you bring up only one emotion that does not lead to harming of others and one self?

    What makes you believe that logical thinking and reasoning brings you to some amount of reality?

    [quote]
    [i]Originally posted by bowang[/i]
    you could live a life without a spouse and kid but it sure is fun to have them around. people don’t have sex with their husbands or wives in celebration for their love because it’s boring. there is some fun “sabai” involved that’s not only carnal but also spiritual. people celebrate birthdays for their kids because it’s a fun event, to see the joy on their kids face opening gifts. having fun and experiencing life with the ones you love ultimately bring forth knowledge and wisdom. jesus in one of the celebrations even turned water into wine! think about that. you could take this account literally or figuratively. the problem arises when people over indulge in their own carnality neglecting their spiritual responsibilities. much knowledge comes from walking the “dark” side but one must be careful when walking in such a territory because its very easy to fall prey due to the trappings and allures of the material world thus neglecting to hold fast to their spiritual anchor. there needs to be balance, like skillfully walking a tight rope. one must be mindful of his own limitation and potential.

    in regards to emotion, it is like a raging storm. it is destructive able to sink ships and destroy all in its path. however with the greatest of all storms there also comes the greatest of all peace. our emotions make us feel alive. we cry, we laugh, we are happy, and we are sad. it is not always a bad thing. dont take life too seriously, live it one moment at a time and God will do the rest. i too have to constantly remind myself this..

    Ecclesiastes 3:13
    And also that every man should eat and drink, and enjoy the good of all his labour, it is the gift of God.

    Matthew 25:21
    His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

    [quote]
    [i]Originally posted by hanzze[/i]
    What makes you believe that a man could not life without a wife and a wife not without a man?

    What makes you believe that emotions would lead to peace? Can you bring up only one emotion that does not lead to harming of others and one self?

    What makes you believe that logical thinking and reasoning brings you to some amount of reality?

    Can you quote one sentence where Jesus had taught his disciples that fun leads to peace? Or fun is the source of reality?

    [Message last modified 09-26-2011 02:56am by hanzze]

    [Message last modified 09-27-2011 06:27am by bowang][/quote]

    [Message last modified 09-27-2011 07:55am by hanzze][/quote]

    [Message last modified 09-29-2011 06:52am by bowang]

    #352229
    Avatar of bowang
    bowang
    Participant

    alright one last time.” I AM WHO I AM ” is the name of GOD. so when you asked me who created me. I said ” I AM WHO I AM”. its another way of me saying, “GOD” created me. get it ??

    [i]Originally posted by khemrin[/i]

    Bowang,

    First you never said you were created by God. I asked you three times. :) You kept saying,”I AM WHO I AM”. Just imagine if God asked Adam, WHO CREATED YOU? and Adam kept answering,”I AM WHO I AM”…Then you should appreciate my patience rather than insulting it. :D

    What a flaw of such creation as that of yours. What a different about 2000 years later that such creation has been altered and deviated from the original principle that of Jesus who respect and revered his parents and their faith, and yet here you are just gone hay-wired…I feel sorry for you my friend. I hope God can help you.

    [quote]
    [i]Originally posted by bowang[/i]
    it’s not my fault you have the patience of a flea and the intellect of a snail. i told you already God created me. if that’s not good enough for you, too bad so sad?

    [quote]
    [i]Originally posted by khemrin[/i]

    Please stop testing my patience :D

    WHO CREATED YOU?

    Please answer it properly.

    [quote]
    [i]Originally posted by bowang[/i]
    and i simply said I AM WHO I AM, i cant get anymore more simpler than that. next question please…

    [/quote]
    [/quote]

    [Message last modified 09-27-2011 12:09pm by khemrin][/quote]

    [Message last modified 09-29-2011 06:56am by bowang]

    #352239
    Avatar of bowang
    bowang
    Participant

    if you were trying to be sarcastic, i am not impressed. try again..

    [i]Originally posted by n_n1985[/i]
    It is sinful asking the Son of God such question Khemrin. Bowang a descendant from the sky with the mission to save the Earth. Unlike us ordinary humans and Jesus existence through Mary Bowang is a unique type who revolutionised the 21st century.

    #352250
    Avatar of n_n1985
    n_n1985
    Participant

    Just telling Khemerin that he is violating Bowang’s Christianity doctrine.

    #352260
    Avatar of bowang
    bowang
    Participant

    to be politically correct is to conform to the mainstream in order to be a part of the mob or collective. it is marxist in origin. in a liberally dominated society, voicing ones judeo christian values is not politically correct. its like yelling fire in a crowded theater. political correctness, a construct of the left, is not easily spotted in its many incarnations, in fact it has even infiltrated our most sacred institution, the church itself. the fact i am even saying this is like me yelling fire in a crowded church.

    to go against the normally adopted doctrine accepted by the collective is to be politically incorrect. most christians are taught the 144000 are of jewish descent because it is the easy answer for the masses to consume. for me to say otherwise is to not be politically correct in the institution of the church. but the book of revelations doesnt clearly show this in the manner you espoused. it is clear to you because it is of a certain doctrine you subscribe to but for every biblical proof you are able to show in support of your position, i can google 2 more to refute you. there are many interpretations of the rapture doctrine as well. not many things are as clear as you think. so to dispute verse for verse is a waste of time. lets talk from the heart and have the spirit as a guide. we know Jesus is God. He died for our sins, and he is coming back.

    God’s plan is always two folds, spiritual and physical. what you think is impossible, God makes possible. the 12 tribes of israel represented physical israel at one time. 10 tribes were lost and scattered out into the world. they were incorporated or assimilated into the wilderness. the 144000 remnant are comprised of jews and gentiles, physical and spiritual israel. the 144000 represent completion, virgin or not defiled by the institution. since God does things in two folds, some of the gentiles may even have some of the lost tribe DNA in them which only God would know. making it a perfect match. once lost, now found in Christ spiritually and also physically of Israel. all one and the same, sealed. how great is God?

    are you able to tell me absolutely its impossible along the way for the lost tribe to somehow get entangled in cambodia’s ancient past and somehow integrated into our dna? we as cambodians miraculously made it to america and some even came to know Christ for a reason and a purpose in accordance with God’s plan not yet known.

    with God all thing is possible. dont forget that. have faith.

    [i]Originally posted by rasy[/i]

    @ bowang-
    no one is suggesting to be politically correct, but i do suggest correct doctrine. Correct doctrine and politically correct are two different things. To be a Christian in America now is politically incorrect, because Christian claim their doctrine is the absolute truth. claiming your way is the only way is politically incorrect. But the book or revelation clearly shows in text the 12,000 from each 12 tribes each clearly from Jewish descent. The tribe of Judah, Reuben, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Manasseh, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph and Benjamin. I do not see Cambodian on the list, you happen to be born Cambodian. You deduct the reasoning for yourself…its ok if we are one or not one of the 144,000, we can still fully embrace the gospel and its purpose and have true peace and joy.

    In regards to your church ques…I do not belong to any denomination myself and have fellowship with a group of fellow believers (non-denomination) in a small home. i dont like big congregations but there is nothing wrong with being part of one. the bible tells us to have fellowship with one another. Jesus ministry involve Him having fellowship with the people, the sick, poor, hurt and not hurt. A lot of His ministry involved fellowship with people . We need fellowship, it helps keep us accountable also, so the fact that you dont have fellowship you should really assess that.
    But you still have the capacity to believe what you want to believe, i am not you and do not live in your shoes and can’t speak from your experience to make you believe what you believe. but one thing u and i agree on and thats the truth is always is protected by body guard of lies. truthfully search the truth with the most unselfish intentions and it will be revealed, and practice the truth for the purpose of His glory…and when seeking the truth we encounter flaws or inconsistencies then that is not a bad thing but a good thing

    [Message last modified 09-28-2011 02:41am by rasy]

    [Message last modified 09-29-2011 07:54am by bowang]

    [Message last modified 09-29-2011 08:09am by bowang]

    #352270
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    “the object of joy is to enjoy in the moment.” That is a good observation. Why is there joy? Because there are no thoughts involved. There is no worry and no hope. No preconceptions of future and no grieving in the past. That is the place of real joy. Not involved in future ideas and history concepts one is free of emotions. That is a little taste of real freedom, of real joy.

    Don’t make your self a worm. It might be that most humans are just guided by feeling (emotions) like animals, but there is no need to make yourself equal an animal. You seem to have enjoy some real peace already, Just be careful that you don’t mix primitive joy with real joy. Joy of egoism (as founded on the pain on others) with heavenly joy.

    Heavenly joy is free of unwholesome causal effects for one self and others. Worldly joy is a mass of unwholesome causal effects. Some before joy, some at the moment of joy and but in every case always after joy.

    There is nothing to believe, you can observe it all your self.

    One again, why do you have the idea that there is one desire (except of liberation) that leads to joy and peace?

    [i]Originally posted by bowang[/i]
    the object of joy is to enjoy in the moment. that is how i would define the joy i have in mind. you on the other hand keep on referring to this joy as the cause of pain for others. your definition of joy stems from a buddhist perspective where karma is involved and the concept of living in the moment, the expression of emotion, is foreign. to you joy and suffering are the cause and effect which in turn feed off of each other driving a never ending cycle. whether joy negatively or positively impact another is irrelevant in the process of realizing it. you are over thinking these basic emotions without feeling it because of how your mind has been trained to work. you have developed a mechanism to suppress what is natural. there is no need to live a reality in logic because we are emotional beings. even a vulcan must occasionally enjoy a good game of chess. suppressing it may do more harm than good in the long run. such a perfect reality is too good to be true even the tower of babel crashed into the ground.

    to me joy is living in the moment. there is a time and place for both spiritual and physical joy. answering your question brings me spiritual joy because as i strive for the answer, i am also learning from the spirit something i never knew before. to me this is joyful because there is new creation in new thoughts, ideas, and realities. i also enjoy seeing my son and daughter living life. Some may not have the desire for a wife or to have children because their joy is simply rooted in the spiritual like some of the prophets.

    one of the most powerful emotions leading to peace is remorse. remorse comes after hurting another, not before, and when realized and confessed may lead to forgiveness, redemption, peace, and salvation.

    [quote]
    [i]Originally posted by hanzze[/i]
    So does those quotes points to a joy that is based on the pain of others?

    In our normal life we mostly have fun on the labor of others or for the sake of suffering of others. A joke is a sample. Ordinary fun is always founded on stealing of any kind.

    If one had worked hard for his bread, there is no problem to enjoy it. But how many earn there bread by them self. I dont think that there are farmers online on KC *smile* and I don’t think that many really here really know what is real work. If one knows real work he would save his power just to provide him self and his family of what is needed.

    The joy that you refer to (spiritual joy) is a noble joy. Actually we should not mix it with ordinary joy. In Pali it is called “piti” and is a a joy that is free of karma (action that causes an effect). Spiritual joy is nothing but experiences peace. It is the same if you come home and have real earned food, even if it is poor food you will have peace you will have joy.

    So was your intention of having fun ordinary joy or the desire for spiritually joy?

    Why do you think that emotions make you feel alive? Dont you think they just cover the reality and make you god unseen?

    There are some unanswered question also *smile*:

    What makes you believe that a man could not life without a wife and a wife not without a man?

    What makes you believe that emotions would lead to peace? Can you bring up only one emotion that does not lead to harming of others and one self?

    What makes you believe that logical thinking and reasoning brings you to some amount of reality?

    [quote]
    [i]Originally posted by bowang[/i]
    you could live a life without a spouse and kid but it sure is fun to have them around. people don’t have sex with their husbands or wives in celebration for their love because it’s boring. there is some fun “sabai” involved that’s not only carnal but also spiritual. people celebrate birthdays for their kids because it’s a fun event, to see the joy on their kids face opening gifts. having fun and experiencing life with the ones you love ultimately bring forth knowledge and wisdom. jesus in one of the celebrations even turned water into wine! think about that. you could take this account literally or figuratively. the problem arises when people over indulge in their own carnality neglecting their spiritual responsibilities. much knowledge comes from walking the “dark” side but one must be careful when walking in such a territory because its very easy to fall prey due to the trappings and allures of the material world thus neglecting to hold fast to their spiritual anchor. there needs to be balance, like skillfully walking a tight rope. one must be mindful of his own limitation and potential.

    in regards to emotion, it is like a raging storm. it is destructive able to sink ships and destroy all in its path. however with the greatest of all storms there also comes the greatest of all peace. our emotions make us feel alive. we cry, we laugh, we are happy, and we are sad. it is not always a bad thing. dont take life too seriously, live it one moment at a time and God will do the rest. i too have to constantly remind myself this..

    Ecclesiastes 3:13
    And also that every man should eat and drink, and enjoy the good of all his labour, it is the gift of God.

    Matthew 25:21
    His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

    [quote]
    [i]Originally posted by hanzze[/i]
    What makes you believe that a man could not life without a wife and a wife not without a man?

    What makes you believe that emotions would lead to peace? Can you bring up only one emotion that does not lead to harming of others and one self?

    What makes you believe that logical thinking and reasoning brings you to some amount of reality?

    Can you quote one sentence where Jesus had taught his disciples that fun leads to peace? Or fun is the source of reality?

    [Message last modified 09-26-2011 02:56am by hanzze]

    [Message last modified 09-27-2011 06:27am by bowang][/quote]

    [Message last modified 09-27-2011 07:55am by hanzze][/quote]

    [Message last modified 09-29-2011 06:52am by bowang][/quote]

    #352279
    Avatar of khemrin
    khemrin
    Participant

    The reason why I asked you that question. You seem to be indulging in the delusion that you perhaps know it all, God’s gift wisdom and open and ask me all topic. So, then, please be patient. There is no rush now. These things have been discussed, argued, have gone to wars, killed millions for over 2000 years and still is today, what is the rush. You are not going to heaven any time soon anyway.

    Ok, so I got it, you were God’s creation? How was it…Was it the same way Jesus was created through Virgin Mary? Or Adam through clay?

    [i]Originally posted by bowang[/i]
    alright one last time.” I AM WHO I AM ” is the name of GOD. so when you asked me who created me. I said ” I AM WHO I AM”. its another way of me saying, “GOD” created me. get it ??

    [quote]
    [i]Originally posted by khemrin[/i]

    Bowang,

    First you never said you were created by God. I asked you three times. :) You kept saying,”I AM WHO I AM”. Just imagine if God asked Adam, WHO CREATED YOU? and Adam kept answering,”I AM WHO I AM”…Then you should appreciate my patience rather than insulting it. :D

    What a flaw of such creation as that of yours. What a different about 2000 years later that such creation has been altered and deviated from the original principle that of Jesus who respect and revered his parents and their faith, and yet here you are just gone hay-wired…I feel sorry for you my friend. I hope God can help you.

    [quote]
    [i]Originally posted by bowang[/i]
    it’s not my fault you have the patience of a flea and the intellect of a snail. i told you already God created me. if that’s not good enough for you, too bad so sad?

    [quote]
    [i]Originally posted by khemrin[/i]

    Please stop testing my patience :D

    WHO CREATED YOU?

    Please answer it properly.

    [quote]
    [i]Originally posted by bowang[/i]
    and i simply said I AM WHO I AM, i cant get anymore more simpler than that. next question please…

    [/quote]
    [/quote]

    [Message last modified 09-27-2011 12:09pm by khemrin][/quote]

    [Message last modified 09-29-2011 06:56am by bowang][/quote]

    #352291
    Avatar of khemrin
    khemrin
    Participant

    [i]Originally posted by n_n1985[/i]
    Just telling Khemerin that he is violating Bowang’s Christianity doctrine.

    N1985,

    I am going to hell for asking Bowang that question. Am I Bowang?

    #352301
    Avatar of n_n1985
    n_n1985
    Participant

    I am not blessed with God’s power to judge. Will leave to Lord Bowang.

    And in case you missed Bowang heavenly message: Cambodia needs to abandon Buddhism practice and adopt Christianity to prevent future destruction. I am not making it up :D

    #352310
    Avatar of rasy
    rasy
    Participant

    @ bowang…for every point i make regarding the bible you say u can refute it by googling it.
    If you are going to refute me on matters pertaining to the bible, refute me by using the bible.
    Yes all things are possible by God, it is possible you and I are one of the chosen and also possible u and I are not.

    #352319
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    possible not possible:

    The Chicken & the Duck

    Two people see a chicken and a duck. The first person wants the chicken to be a duck, and the duck to be a chicken, but it simply can’t be. Throughout their life, it can’t happen. If the first person doesn’t stop thinking in this way, he’ll have to suffer. The second person sees the chicken as a chicken, and the duck as a duck. That way there’s no problem. When your views are right, there’s no suffering.

    The same holds here. Anicca — things that are inconstant — we want to make constant. As long as they’re inconstant, we’re sad. The person who sees that inconstant things are simply inconstant can be at ease. There’s no problem.

    Ever since the day of our birth we’ve been running away from the truth. We don’t want things to be the way they are, but we can’t stop them from being that way. That’s just the way they are. They can’t be any other way. It’s like trying to make a duck be the same as a chicken. It’ll never be the same. It’s a duck. Or like trying to make a chicken be the same as a duck: It’ll never be the same. It’s a chicken. Whoever thinks that he wants to change things like this will have to suffer. But if you think, “Oh, that’s just the way it is,” you gain strength — for no matter how much you try, you can’t make the body permanent or lasting.

    So what means possible or impossible to you?

    #352331
    Avatar of bowang
    bowang
    Participant

    “As Jesus passed on from there, He saw a man named Matthew sitting at the tax office. And He said to him, “Follow Me.” So he arose and followed Him. Now it happened as Jesus sat at the table in the house, that behold, many tax collectors and sinners came and sat down with Him and His disciples. And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to His disciples, “Why does your Teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?” When Jesus heard that, He said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. “But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice.’ [For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.” - Matt 9: 9-13

    in buddhism, the term used is liberation, to be free from the world of samsara. nirvana is the goal. it is a void free from existence. in christianity the term used is saved, to be married to christ instead where heaven is a place of eternal existence. so if God has an uncreated state, it would be like this nirvana talked about by the buddhists but since i am alive living in Christ, i have no desire to go back to a primordial state of nonexistence. in fact we naturally are fearful of the physical death. i certainly do not desire eternal death. The Kingdom of Heaven is an infinite state of creation given to man only because of God's mercy. we are imperfect compared to his perfection and we do not deserve to even know Him, yet we do. so i have no desire to be liberated in the buddhist sense from God's compassion. i do desire to be saved so that i may be in His Kingdom forever, retaining my personality and identity as he promised as a son of God.

    Since God was merciful towards us, we should desire and strive to be merciful towards his creations. this includes all people even those deemed weak and unclean by the institution. back then the pharisees were the institution. they thought they were better than most because of their title, sacrifices, and burned offerings to God. they were a self righteous bunch. but God told them he desires mercy or compassion over rituals. rituals are the traditions of man. God desires mercy and love even over traditions and culture.

    so as sinners we should also desire mercy for another. if God could do it, who are we to go against his wish? Christ made the ultimate sacrifice already, that's on Him. he wants us to simply love. in doing so, we are adopted into his ministry becoming elects in His Kingdom of everlasting life.

    [i]Originally posted by hanzze[/i]
    “the object of joy is to enjoy in the moment.” That is a good observation. Why is there joy? Because there are no thoughts involved. There is no worry and no hope. No preconceptions of future and no grieving in the past. That is the place of real joy. Not involved in future ideas and history concepts one is free of emotions. That is a little taste of real freedom, of real joy.

    Don’t make your self a worm. It might be that most humans are just guided by feeling (emotions) like animals, but there is no need to make yourself equal an animal. You seem to have enjoy some real peace already, Just be careful that you don’t mix primitive joy with real joy. Joy of egoism (as founded on the pain on others) with heavenly joy.

    Heavenly joy is free of unwholesome causal effects for one self and others. Worldly joy is a mass of unwholesome causal effects. Some before joy, some at the moment of joy and but in every case always after joy.

    There is nothing to believe, you can observe it all your self.

    One again, why do you have the idea that there is one desire (except of liberation) that leads to joy and peace?

    [quote]
    [i]Originally posted by bowang[/i]
    the object of joy is to enjoy in the moment. that is how i would define the joy i have in mind. you on the other hand keep on referring to this joy as the cause of pain for others. your definition of joy stems from a buddhist perspective where karma is involved and the concept of living in the moment, the expression of emotion, is foreign. to you joy and suffering are the cause and effect which in turn feed off of each other driving a never ending cycle. whether joy negatively or positively impact another is irrelevant in the process of realizing it. you are over thinking these basic emotions without feeling it because of how your mind has been trained to work. you have developed a mechanism to suppress what is natural. there is no need to live a reality in logic because we are emotional beings. even a vulcan must occasionally enjoy a good game of chess. suppressing it may do more harm than good in the long run. such a perfect reality is too good to be true even the tower of babel crashed into the ground.

    to me joy is living in the moment. there is a time and place for both spiritual and physical joy. answering your question brings me spiritual joy because as i strive for the answer, i am also learning from the spirit something i never knew before. to me this is joyful because there is new creation in new thoughts, ideas, and realities. i also enjoy seeing my son and daughter living life. Some may not have the desire for a wife or to have children because their joy is simply rooted in the spiritual like some of the prophets.

    one of the most powerful emotions leading to peace is remorse. remorse comes after hurting another, not before, and when realized and confessed may lead to forgiveness, redemption, peace, and salvation.

    [quote]
    [i]Originally posted by hanzze[/i]
    So does those quotes points to a joy that is based on the pain of others?

    In our normal life we mostly have fun on the labor of others or for the sake of suffering of others. A joke is a sample. Ordinary fun is always founded on stealing of any kind.

    If one had worked hard for his bread, there is no problem to enjoy it. But how many earn there bread by them self. I dont think that there are farmers online on KC *smile* and I don’t think that many really here really know what is real work. If one knows real work he would save his power just to provide him self and his family of what is needed.

    The joy that you refer to (spiritual joy) is a noble joy. Actually we should not mix it with ordinary joy. In Pali it is called “piti” and is a a joy that is free of karma (action that causes an effect). Spiritual joy is nothing but experiences peace. It is the same if you come home and have real earned food, even if it is poor food you will have peace you will have joy.

    So was your intention of having fun ordinary joy or the desire for spiritually joy?

    Why do you think that emotions make you feel alive? Dont you think they just cover the reality and make you god unseen?

    There are some unanswered question also *smile*:

    What makes you believe that a man could not life without a wife and a wife not without a man?

    What makes you believe that emotions would lead to peace? Can you bring up only one emotion that does not lead to harming of others and one self?

    What makes you believe that logical thinking and reasoning brings you to some amount of reality?

    [quote]
    [i]Originally posted by bowang[/i]
    you could live a life without a spouse and kid but it sure is fun to have them around. people don’t have sex with their husbands or wives in celebration for their love because it’s boring. there is some fun “sabai” involved that’s not only carnal but also spiritual. people celebrate birthdays for their kids because it’s a fun event, to see the joy on their kids face opening gifts. having fun and experiencing life with the ones you love ultimately bring forth knowledge and wisdom. jesus in one of the celebrations even turned water into wine! think about that. you could take this account literally or figuratively. the problem arises when people over indulge in their own carnality neglecting their spiritual responsibilities. much knowledge comes from walking the “dark” side but one must be careful when walking in such a territory because its very easy to fall prey due to the trappings and allures of the material world thus neglecting to hold fast to their spiritual anchor. there needs to be balance, like skillfully walking a tight rope. one must be mindful of his own limitation and potential.

    in regards to emotion, it is like a raging storm. it is destructive able to sink ships and destroy all in its path. however with the greatest of all storms there also comes the greatest of all peace. our emotions make us feel alive. we cry, we laugh, we are happy, and we are sad. it is not always a bad thing. dont take life too seriously, live it one moment at a time and God will do the rest. i too have to constantly remind myself this..

    Ecclesiastes 3:13
    And also that every man should eat and drink, and enjoy the good of all his labour, it is the gift of God.

    Matthew 25:21
    His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

    [quote]
    [i]Originally posted by hanzze[/i]
    What makes you believe that a man could not life without a wife and a wife not without a man?

    What makes you believe that emotions would lead to peace? Can you bring up only one emotion that does not lead to harming of others and one self?

    What makes you believe that logical thinking and reasoning brings you to some amount of reality?

    Can you quote one sentence where Jesus had taught his disciples that fun leads to peace? Or fun is the source of reality?

    [Message last modified 09-29-2011 06:52am by bowang]

    [/quote]

    [Message last modified 09-30-2011 03:19pm by bowang]

    [Message last modified 09-30-2011 03:21pm by bowang]

    #352340
    Avatar of bowang
    bowang
    Participant

    I never said i know it all. i am actually learning as i am answering your questions. no i was not born of immaculate conception although a virgin birth is certainly possible and has happened in nature. i am sure my mom and dad like all people had sex and 10 months later, i was born. thats the normal way to conceive by the way. so all my life i knew my mom and dad as my creator, “my preah” as dictated by the buddha which i was a firm believer in. i was an ambassador of the khmer culture and traditions in fact.

    i grew up not knowing Christ. But since God has a plan above my comprehension, he slowly reeled me back to him by breaking me down completely. So when i was down and out ready to give up. he revealed Himself for the first time in my life to be a true and merciful God. i truly felt Love for the very first time. i felt a purpose. after that, he taught me things i never knew or considered before. God had his creations in mind before they were even created. he then created them, and they eventually returns to him like a lost sheep in the wildness as he is calling for his stock. Creation happens in God’s mind, and then it is manifested in the physical material world, when that breaks down, it goes back to the Sources. it is a constant process or refinement.

    [i]Originally posted by khemrin[/i]

    The reason why I asked you that question. You seem to be indulging in the delusion that you perhaps know it all, God’s gift wisdom and open and ask me all topic. So, then, please be patient. There is no rush now. These things have been discussed, argued, have gone to wars, killed millions for over 2000 years and still is today, what is the rush. You are not going to heaven any time soon anyway.

    Ok, so I got it, you were God’s creation? How was it…Was it the same way Jesus was created through Virgin Mary? Or Adam through clay?

    [quote]
    [i]Originally posted by bowang[/i]
    alright one last time.” I AM WHO I AM ” is the name of GOD. so when you asked me who created me. I said ” I AM WHO I AM”. its another way of me saying, “GOD” created me. get it ??

    [quote]
    [i]Originally posted by khemrin[/i]

    Bowang,

    First you never said you were created by God. I asked you three times. :) You kept saying,”I AM WHO I AM”. Just imagine if God asked Adam, WHO CREATED YOU? and Adam kept answering,”I AM WHO I AM”…Then you should appreciate my patience rather than insulting it. :D

    What a flaw of such creation as that of yours. What a different about 2000 years later that such creation has been altered and deviated from the original principle that of Jesus who respect and revered his parents and their faith, and yet here you are just gone hay-wired…I feel sorry for you my friend. I hope God can help you.

    [quote]
    [i]Originally posted by bowang[/i]
    it’s not my fault you have the patience of a flea and the intellect of a snail. i told you already God created me. if that’s not good enough for you, too bad so sad?

    [quote]
    [i]Originally posted by khemrin[/i]

    Please stop testing my patience :D

    WHO CREATED YOU?

    Please answer it properly.

    [quote]
    [i]Originally posted by bowang[/i]
    and i simply said I AM WHO I AM, i cant get anymore more simpler than that. next question please…

    [/quote]
    [/quote]

    [Message last modified 09-27-2011 12:09pm by khemrin][/quote]

    [Message last modified 09-29-2011 06:56am by bowang][/quote]
    [/quote]

    #352349
    Avatar of bowang
    bowang
    Participant

    i hope you do not go to hell. hell is simply a place void of God. if you truly do not want to be with God, God will surely not force Himself upon you, forcing you to be in a place you have no desire to be, in the first place.

    [i]Originally posted by khemrin[/i]

    [quote]
    [i]Originally posted by n_n1985[/i]
    Just telling Khemerin that he is violating Bowang’s Christianity doctrine.

    N1985,

    I am going to hell for asking Bowang that question. Am I Bowang?[/quote]

    #352359
    Avatar of bowang
    bowang
    Participant

    not just cambodian people, but all people needs to go back to Christ. so you are partly right.

    [i]Originally posted by n_n1985[/i]
    I am not blessed with God’s power to judge. Will leave to Lord Bowang.

    And in case you missed Bowang heavenly message: Cambodia needs to abandon Buddhism practice and adopt Christianity to prevent future destruction. I am not making it up :D

    #352368
    Avatar of bowang
    bowang
    Participant

    who determines what’s biblical or not? surely the verses are all there and they are using the same bible yet there are many interpretations even within christianity. that is why there are the many denominations. in fact, there are tons of rapture interpretations for example with supporting verses pulled from the bible refuting one another on when or if its even going to happen. you could spend all day googling and reading them. my point is this, to discuss the bible without the holy spirit in mind, doesnt get very far. the holy spirit teaches and deciphers the text in context even revealing whats mysterious to some.

    so we are in agreement, all things are possible even the impossibles. perhaps we both are members of the 144000, the more the merrier. or maybe you and i are not even chosen. i can only tell you i answered truthfully. you could have asked more clarifying questions if you were curious as to my reasoning because the purpose of this thread is answer tough questions which i have been doing in good faith. instead, you were quick to condemn his brother in christ even siding with the unbelievers. that in itself, should be examined by you with the guidance of the holy spirit.

    imagine Christ telling his brothers, He’s the living God. instead of asking him why, some would rather condemn him because he didnt fit what was written in accordance to their own understanding of the text. to them it was impossible.

    I know its possible because i actually believe in Christ even 2000 years later.

    [i]Originally posted by rasy[/i]
    @ bowang…for every point i make regarding the bible you say u can refute it by googling it.
    If you are going to refute me on matters pertaining to the bible, refute me by using the bible.
    Yes all things are possible by God, it is possible you and I are one of the chosen and also possible u and I are not.

    [Message last modified 09-30-2011 04:38pm by bowang]

    #352378
    Avatar of bowang
    bowang
    Participant

    physical reality is only limited to the imagination. creativity comes from a higher source which is spiritual. as it manifests, creativity becomes reality. therefore nothing is impossible because in the spirit world, everything is possible. it is infinite realities within infinite possibilities, it is Absolute. God is the impossible made possible, he is the Creator. He is the consciousness behind quantum mechanics. He is the Architect behind the master program running simulations of all the possibilities of existence in all of his realms. His will is infinite made finite. His predestination is your freewill.

    in fact, its easy for God to turn water into wine or a chicken into a duck, when he wills it because he comes from a higher plane. It happens in the spirit and manifests in the flesh. it is no different than an unbeliever regenerated into a believer. he changes in spirit resulting in his changes in physical attributes to fit the spirit for he is born again into a new creature. a person who is depended on drugs, after being saved, will change his life completely around, no longer a creature addicted to the flesh but a creature of his newly found spirit.

    i could say, an unbeliever will always be one, an unbeliever is destined for a place without God, it is in their nature because they are incapable of change but then i remember i was once an unbeliever myself and i did change from the inside out into a new creature in Christ. the impossible made possible. so i remain faithful in optimism.

    in christ one changes in a life time which sounds impossible at first but does happen with the many witnesses out there. in buddhism, one changes after being reincarnated in another life time with accounts from people all over the world. perhaps there is a great misunderstanding on how this phenomenon occurs.

    God is running simulations of all of the different realities and possibilities looking to save those willing in the infinite realms of existence because His Will is to save those elected. it’s a possibility that throughout the years, people somehow were able to accidentally tap into different realms or alternate realities. they in in turn interpret this to be them in another life time. yes this is true to a certain extent but is it another lifetime when it is happening at the same time?

    the impossible and possible, all happening at the same time where there is no time just pure Consciousness of God. Absolute, Our Father in Heaven.

    [i]Originally posted by hanzze[/i]
    possible not possible:

    [b][url=http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai/chah/insimpleterms.html]The Chicken & the Duck[/url][/b]

    Two people see a chicken and a duck. The first person wants the chicken to be a duck, and the duck to be a chicken, but it simply can’t be. Throughout their life, it can’t happen. If the first person doesn’t stop thinking in this way, he’ll have to suffer. The second person sees the chicken as a chicken, and the duck as a duck. That way there’s no problem. When your views are right, there’s no suffering.

    The same holds here. Anicca — things that are inconstant — we want to make constant. As long as they’re inconstant, we’re sad. The person who sees that inconstant things are simply inconstant can be at ease. There’s no problem.

    Ever since the day of our birth we’ve been running away from the truth. We don’t want things to be the way they are, but we can’t stop them from being that way. That’s just the way they are. They can’t be any other way. It’s like trying to make a duck be the same as a chicken. It’ll never be the same. It’s a duck. Or like trying to make a chicken be the same as a duck: It’ll never be the same. It’s a chicken. Whoever thinks that he wants to change things like this will have to suffer. But if you think, “Oh, that’s just the way it is,” you gain strength — for no matter how much you try, you can’t make the body permanent or lasting.

    So what means possible or impossible to you?

    #352388
    Avatar of rasy
    rasy
    Participant

    [i]Originally posted by bowang[/i]
    who determines what’s biblical or not? surely the verses are all there and they are using the same bible yet there are many interpretations even within christianity. that is why there are the many denominations. in fact, there are tons of rapture interpretations for example with supporting verses pulled from the bible refuting one another on when or if its even going to happen. you could spend all day googling and reading them. my point is this, to discuss the bible without the holy spirit in mind, doesnt get very far. the holy spirit teaches and deciphers the text in context even revealing whats mysterious to some.

    so we are in agreement, all things are possible even the impossibles. perhaps we both are members of the 144000, the more the merrier. or maybe you and i are not even chosen. i can only tell you i answered truthfully. you could have asked more clarifying questions if you were curious as to my reasoning because the purpose of this thread is answer tough questions which i have been doing in good faith. instead, you were quick to condemn his brother in christ even siding with the unbelievers. that in itself, should be examined by you with the guidance of the holy spirit.

    imagine Christ telling his brothers, He’s the living God. instead of asking him why, some would rather condemn him because he didnt fit what was written in accordance to their own understanding of the text. to them it was impossible.

    I know its possible because i actually believe in Christ even 2000 years later.

    [quote]
    [i]Originally posted by rasy[/i]
    @ bowang…for every point i make regarding the bible you say u can refute it by googling it.
    If you are going to refute me on matters pertaining to the bible, refute me by using the bible.
    Yes all things are possible by God, it is possible you and I are one of the chosen and also possible u and I are not.

    [Message last modified 09-30-2011 04:38pm by bowang][/quote]

    when there is a doctrine or interpretation that is outside of the widely accepted interpretation, it will always be more suspectable to being labeled a misinterpretation. Just because there are many other doctrines and interpretations that exist does not mean each and everyone of them will be widely accepted, or has to be accepted. To know the truth about anything there must be a standard to measure it to. If every doctrine and interpretation was offered equal credibility then truth then turns relative and subjective…thus no absolute truth. You even acknowledge your claim to yourself is outside of the widely accepted doctrine. You can talk to me or a JW or u proablby experienced this already. I’m just pointing out what you probably experienced.

    In terms of taking side of non-believers, Im just taking a side that something is very suspectable. And the non believing KCer’s happen to be suspectable as well.
    And you said I could have asked u more clarifying questions if I was curious. But I did, I asked what denomination u were, what doctrine or what authority u are using, what fellowship u are apart of who may support your claim. You mention through dreams, through feelings and through googling. Now if you told me you were part of a fellowship of other believers or or a church whom all supported your claim that would appear different. But you said u dont have any fellowship but just with yourself, or dont belong to a church body. So everything is just from you and your using yourself as a standard to mearsuring yourself. I encourage you to be part of a fellowship for that is what the bible calls us to do through out the letters of paul and the gospels.

    also you cant honestly use the illustration of Christ telling His brothers He is the living God and they initially didn’t believe Him. Your expecting me to believe you using this illustration? That I should believe you for the very same reason I believe in Christ? You are not Christ and you using this as your basis causes me more confusion.

    but ill be honest with you, whatever illustration u use a good one or confusing one I already made my stance that your view of the gospel is different from my view, which happens to be the more widely accepted view (the 144,000 would be of Jewish descent).

    but just out of curiosity let’s say u and I are the 2 of the 144,000. where would we go when Christ return and where would every other believer go?

    #352400
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    What do you think?

    Would it be good if one believes and he believes wrong, as a believe will be always a believe and nothing more?
    If there is a way to know, wouldn’t it be better?

    Mostly a prove is a way to check if something is right or only a believe. So how did you prove things?
    Actually a crazy man in an psychiatric hospital, also just believes. The Khmer rouge did believe, the Nazis did believe. A killer believes. So they all believe, but non of them knows.

    They all have been brainwashed, so that they did what was to believed. Understanding is different from believe. To attain understanding you need to watch and observe things for your own.

    Actually there is quite no indices that only one thing is not just a believe, for the most you write here. Its neither logical, nor is it propound, it does not makes sense and it is also not useful.

    I know that it is important that simply minded people need a believe to have something to hold on, but at the moment one is able to walk, I guess it is better to start to look around and prove things to understand them.

    Such an attitude is not different to a crazy soldier, he believes and runs and acts. You should listen to some talks of catastrophically leaders. The basis of those world disasters, have been promises. Simple minded people a caught with promises and act only to archive it.

    So do you think it is needed to turn of his brain to believe, or could a wise also follow wise sayings if he is captive to understand the meaning behind?

    There is no starvation just if one has a believe. The tool of believe is just to get the child starting to act in the right way. If he acts rightly he will understand. If he stays on the level of believe, there will be no attainment at all.

    [i]Originally posted by bowang[/i]
    physical reality is only limited to the imagination. creativity comes from a higher source which is spiritual. as it manifests, creativity becomes reality. therefore nothing is impossible because in the spirit world, everything is possible. it is infinite realities within infinite possibilities, it is Absolute. God is the impossible made possible, he is the Creator. He is the consciousness behind quantum mechanics. He is the Architect behind the master program running simulations of all the possibilities of existence in all of his realms. His will is infinite made finite. His predestination is your freewill.

    in fact, its easy for God to turn water into wine or a chicken into a duck, when he wills it because he comes from a higher plane. It happens in the spirit and manifests in the flesh. it is no different than an unbeliever regenerated into a believer. he changes in spirit resulting in his changes in physical attributes to fit the spirit for he is born again into a new creature. a person who is depended on drugs, after being saved, will change his life completely around, no longer a creature addicted to the flesh but a creature of his newly found spirit.

    i could say, an unbeliever will always be one, an unbeliever is destined for a place without God, it is in their nature because they are incapable of change but then i remember i was once an unbeliever myself and i did change from the inside out into a new creature in Christ. the impossible made possible. so i remain faithful in optimism.

    in christ one changes in a life time which sounds impossible at first but does happen with the many witnesses out there. in buddhism, one changes after being reincarnated in another life time with accounts from people all over the world. perhaps there is a great misunderstanding on how this phenomenon occurs.

    God is running simulations of all of the different realities and possibilities looking to save those willing in the infinite realms of existence because His Will is to save those elected. it’s a possibility that throughout the years, people somehow were able to accidentally tap into different realms or alternate realities. they in in turn interpret this to be them in another life time. yes this is true to a certain extent but is it another lifetime when it is happening at the same time?

    the impossible and possible, all happening at the same time where there is no time just pure Consciousness of God. Absolute, Our Father in Heaven.

    Do you think it is possible to life like Jesus has told, and why do people believe in god and Jesus and don’t act according the advices. They simply put there anger and greed into the words of wisdom and steal and kill like the soldiers telling our master had said. But actually the master did not.

    So what is more important, to act or believe? And please try to be honest to your self.

    [quote]
    [i]Originally posted by hanzze[/i]
    possible not possible:

    [b][url=http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai/chah/insimpleterms.html]The Chicken & the Duck[/url][/b]

    Two people see a chicken and a duck. The first person wants the chicken to be a duck, and the duck to be a chicken, but it simply can’t be. Throughout their life, it can’t happen. If the first person doesn’t stop thinking in this way, he’ll have to suffer. The second person sees the chicken as a chicken, and the duck as a duck. That way there’s no problem. When your views are right, there’s no suffering.

    The same holds here. Anicca — things that are inconstant — we want to make constant. As long as they’re inconstant, we’re sad. The person who sees that inconstant things are simply inconstant can be at ease. There’s no problem.

    Ever since the day of our birth we’ve been running away from the truth. We don’t want things to be the way they are, but we can’t stop them from being that way. That’s just the way they are. They can’t be any other way. It’s like trying to make a duck be the same as a chicken. It’ll never be the same. It’s a duck. Or like trying to make a chicken be the same as a duck: It’ll never be the same. It’s a chicken. Whoever thinks that he wants to change things like this will have to suffer. But if you think, “Oh, that’s just the way it is,” you gain strength — for no matter how much you try, you can’t make the body permanent or lasting.

    So what means possible or impossible to you?

    [/quote]

    [Message last modified 09-30-2011 09:53pm by hanzze]

    #352410
    Avatar of bowang
    bowang
    Participant

    rasy,

    .
    i agree with you, there must be some standards to measure things by or else its all relative, i am no proponent of relativism. I am a proponent of revelations. i do get it from a philosophical perspective. i understand your point completely and you shouldnt feel bad for finding me highly suspicious. that is your right. however i want to share my side of the story as well. whether it is accepted or not is not a concern of mine because it is not that important to me. i am here to answer some questions to the best of my abilities. this is my way of giving back to the community. this is my simple fellowship in the age of the internet with our khmer people on KC. i am walking and communicating with the sinners and unbelievers sharing my witness and testimony in an honest manner. we are communicating and learning. its not your traditional fellowship where you meet in a building and talk and pray. but i am in the midst of fellows and i do pray for my answers. and i dont typically do things according to traditions.

    my measuring stick is the holy spirit. he teaches and i simply follow. however as an example, if joe blow claims to have seen an alien, i wouldnt discount his eyewitness account simply because he’s cambodian and saw it on pch and cherry. he may be alone therefore no one else can vouch for him because thats the nature of an alien visit. it would make me even more curious and suspicious as to why he would make such a thing up. i would ask him to describe what he saw, his feelings, his background. i would ask everything i could imagine in order to see if he’s telling the truth or not. i may even resort to my gut feeling about the matter when all else fails. I wouldnt call him crazy or condemn him simply because most alien contacts are made by white people in the middle of a hay field when consulting the UFO manual. it doesnt mean he’s crazy or he is lying especially if he’s very coherent not high or drunk. so when you ask for the denomination, doctrine, and basing everything on that you are essentially doing the same thing. you are discriminating him based on a standard you abide by. it’s like a homeless going up to a banker asking for money for a hot dog, and the banker dismissing him because in his mind, the homeless will use it to buy alcohol. yeah 9/10 this is true but what if this homeless was really hungry and really wanted to buy food. so the best measuring stick is not a certain doctrine, denomination, but the truth itself guided by the holy spirit aka that gut feeling. i would have been okay with i just don’t feel you bowang. but when you bring up interpretations, doctrines and things like that, i have to comment a bit on it. i have given you alternative examples that is not PC in the church of how a cambodian guy on pch and cherry may have seen something and at the same time not be crazy or a liar.

    i used the example with christ as a parable. the 144000 thing came out of me saying i am not christ but i do believe in Him. as for your last question about what will happen to the 144400 when christ returns, a lot of it is still a mystery to me. i hope to get a better grasp of it but right now i do not know for sure because i am still learning and praying for greater understanding. i only know Jesus is coming back and more will be revealed as the time approaches.

    you know how i said before about the 144000, God does things 2 folds, spiritual and physical. i think the rapture will happen in the same fashion. the remnant will know for sure through a spiritual rapture in a “this is it” moment. there will be be some sort of sign which will convince the remnant that this is the time at hand while most of the world are too busy just surviving. they will remain on earth during the trials and tribulations physically to help spread the words of Christ but their spirit is already with God. and so even if they’re persecuted, their physical pain in overshadowed by their spiritual bliss. when Christ returns, it is at the point they will be physically raptured to be with Christ on a new earth. this new earth i think is located somewhere in the orion constellation where christ went to prepare his Kingdom.

    [Message last modified 09-30-2011 11:06pm by bowang]

    #352420
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    Could it be that some just follow what seems good for them, but not the whole thing? A kind of rejecting the doctrine, a kind off “not believing”?

    #352430
    Avatar of khemrin
    khemrin
    Participant

    1/ I was not talking about Komoto dragon ,when I asked you who created you?

    2/ When you said you were created by God, I was expecting MIRACLE.

    2a/ When I talked about miracle, I am talking about the one that happened within its own sovereignty. No other factors, natural or technology or human or being, such as sex or sperm implant, etc…The one that was like Adam was created, I imagined the scenario where you were just dropped form the sky. or purpose(s)…

    2b/ I don’t even consider Jesus conception as miracle. The simply reason is that because it was not independent, or on its own sovereignty. It depends on “Virgin” Mary and poor Joseph.

    Then I would like you to try again, if you think you were created by God: By which mean?

    ps: Please do not add the preaching of how you found God. I know how God was supposed to be found.

    [i]Originally posted by bowang[/i]
    I never said i know it all. i am actually learning as i am answering your questions. no i was not born of immaculate conception although a virgin birth is certainly possible and has happened in nature. i am sure my mom and dad like all people had sex and 10 months later, i was born. thats the normal way to conceive by the way. so all my life i knew my mom and dad as my creator, “my preah” as dictated by the buddha which i was a firm believer in. i was an ambassador of the khmer culture and traditions in fact.

    i grew up not knowing Christ. But since God has a plan above my comprehension, he slowly reeled me back to him by breaking me down completely. So when i was down and out ready to give up. he revealed Himself for the first time in my life to be a true and merciful God. i truly felt Love for the very first time. i felt a purpose. after that, he taught me things i never knew or considered before. God had his creations in mind before they were even created. he then created them, and they eventually returns to him like a lost sheep in the wildness as he is calling for his stock. Creation happens in God’s mind, and then it is manifested in the physical material world, when that breaks down, it goes back to the Sources. it is a constant process or refinement.

    #352440
    Avatar of rasy
    rasy
    Participant

    @ bowang, fellowship is biblical…whether u consider it traditional or not traditional, fellowship with believers is biblical. Whether through traditional means or untraditional means we are to have fellowship with one another. the bible says so and that is the standard I use.

    In regards to you using Holy Spirit as a standard,

    the gospel of John says the Word was God, God was the Word. We should based our standards on God’s word. Your claim appears to contradicts the bible, contradicting God’s word. The Holy Spirit also speaks through the word, the bible. Since the Holy Spirit speaks through the bible, your claim appears to contradict the Holy Spirit. But the bible can not contradict itself nor the Holy Spirit.

    in regards to your alien from outer space analogy it only works if aliens exist. if one claims to experience aliens, but aliens objectively don’t exist, then they already lost the debate.
    (but if you bowang believe in aliens then that is a whole other issue)

    but since u are adamant on your position, it seems like u want me to hear why u make this claim, what 1 or 2 experiences that support your belief?

    #352452
    Avatar of bowang
    bowang
    Participant

    that is the definition of a miracle. something supernatural, out of this world. lets agree to disagree. i answered faithfully and i apologies if they’re not clear enough. forgive me khemrin.

    [i]Originally posted by khemrin[/i]

    1/ I was not talking about Komoto dragon ,when I asked you who created you?

    2/ When you said you were created by God, I was expecting MIRACLE.

    2a/ When I talked about miracle, I am talking about the one that happened within its own sovereignty. No other factors, natural or technology or human or being, such as sex or sperm implant, etc…The one that was like Adam was created, I imagined the scenario where you were just dropped form the sky. or purpose(s)…

    2b/ I don’t even consider Jesus conception as miracle. The simply reason is that because it was not independent, or on its own sovereignty. It depends on “Virgin” Mary and poor Joseph.

    Then I would like you to try again, if you think you were created by God: By which mean?

    ps: Please do not add the preaching of how you found God. I know how God was supposed to be found.

    [quote]
    [i]Originally posted by bowang[/i]
    I never said i know it all. i am actually learning as i am answering your questions. no i was not born of immaculate conception although a virgin birth is certainly possible and has happened in nature. i am sure my mom and dad like all people had sex and 10 months later, i was born. thats the normal way to conceive by the way. so all my life i knew my mom and dad as my creator, “my preah” as dictated by the buddha which i was a firm believer in. i was an ambassador of the khmer culture and traditions in fact.

    i grew up not knowing Christ. But since God has a plan above my comprehension, he slowly reeled me back to him by breaking me down completely. So when i was down and out ready to give up. he revealed Himself for the first time in my life to be a true and merciful God. i truly felt Love for the very first time. i felt a purpose. after that, he taught me things i never knew or considered before. God had his creations in mind before they were even created. he then created them, and they eventually returns to him like a lost sheep in the wildness as he is calling for his stock. Creation happens in God’s mind, and then it is manifested in the physical material world, when that breaks down, it goes back to the Sources. it is a constant process or refinement.

    [/quote]

    #352461
    Avatar of bowang
    bowang
    Participant

    let’s take a step back and look at the issue at hand from outside of the box like Christ did since he was not of this world. lets not use logic, doctrines, but rather trust in our heart and ask in prayer for understanding from the Holy Spirit. God’s words are clear. it’s in the bible translated into many different languages. the Holy Spirit is what binds His words together into such a powerful witness. It is the rosetta stone making God’s words come alive. to an atheist, reading the bible, Gods words are dead, merely letters having no profound meaning or wisdom. however, under the guide of the holy spirit, the word becomes alive, eternal, bridging the many translations now speaking to its readers in the language of the heart. the word and the spirit doesnt contradict each other when understood in the greater context for the greater good. to us its a paradox, to God its all about love over legality.

    i have nothing against fellowship, if it brings you closer to Christ. more power to you. however you shouldnt be constraint by certain doctrines to where you are forgetting the root reason for the fellowship in the first place. it is to help your relationship with Christ. this relationship is a personal one. no third person can ever come in between this holy union. if this relationship is strong, a fellowship is not a necessity. to dwell in the small thing is to fall into the trapping of legalism just like the pharisees. it is wrong to discount a man’s entire faith simply because he doesnt belong to a group, in the traditional sense. perhaps his fellowship is with others just like him having the same spirit scattered throughout. perhaps this is what matters.

    the key is to look at things fresh from the outside in instead of propagating whats comfortable. the truth is stranger than science fiction. I know God exist as well as fallen angels. aliens are real too. how do you know aliens do not objectively exist? i am sure many unbelievers would say the same about Christ. I have talked about fallen angels and aliens in regards to the occult and end time prophecies. just another name but its the same game.

    i am adamant in the truth even if it seems unreal. it takes faith to bring what is unreal into reality. i just decided jump into it. i’ll give you 3 reasons for why i believe in 3 dreams visions.

    1. before i my conversion. saw myself in an ocean. heard the voice it said. ” i am GOD”

    2. i was given an egg with my name on it, i opened it, and it said ” Christ is coming back”

    3. saw Christ in outer space wearing a robe with a green sash flying towards earth

    4. many more reasons personal to me, but i would rather share the 3 for now.

    [i]Originally posted by rasy[/i]
    @ bowang, fellowship is biblical…whether u consider it traditional or not traditional, fellowship with believers is biblical. Whether through traditional means or untraditional means we are to have fellowship with one another. the bible says so and that is the standard I use.

    In regards to you using Holy Spirit as a standard,

    the gospel of John says the Word was God, God was the Word. We should based our standards on God’s word. Your claim appears to contradicts the bible, contradicting God’s word. The Holy Spirit also speaks through the word, the bible. Since the Holy Spirit speaks through the bible, your claim appears to contradict the Holy Spirit. But the bible can not contradict itself nor the Holy Spirit.

    in regards to your alien from outer space analogy it only works if aliens exist. if one claims to experience aliens, but aliens objectively don’t exist, then they already lost the debate.
    (but if you bowang believe in aliens then that is a whole other issue)

    but since u are adamant on your position, it seems like u want me to hear why u make this claim, what 1 or 2 experiences that support your belief?

    #352471
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    What do you think: Is a dream (when you are asleep) the reality or when you are awake, or could it be that only one dream follows the other? Never be awaken or sometimes a little more. In which mind state you think we could be more awaken?

    #352480
    Avatar of khemrin
    khemrin
    Participant

    When I asked you, I was not looking for right and wrong answer, but honest, the fact of the matter answer. A fairly easy and straight forward question. The one that you should ask yourself and answer to yourself Honestly…And when you find the that honest answer, go and honestly apologize to your parents, for your misunderstanding.

    It is not only about the sex and ten months later. They gave you flesh. They gave you blood. They gave you life and they would die for you, so you can live. They might not be as cool as you would like them to be, but they are your creator. Tell them so, before it is too late.

    [i]Originally posted by bowang[/i]
    that is the definition of a miracle. something supernatural, out of this world. lets agree to disagree. i answered faithfully and i apologies if they’re not clear enough. forgive me khemrin.

    [quote]
    [i]Originally posted by khemrin[/i]

    1/ I was not talking about Komoto dragon ,when I asked you who created you?

    2/ When you said you were created by God, I was expecting MIRACLE.

    2a/ When I talked about miracle, I am talking about the one that happened within its own sovereignty. No other factors, natural or technology or human or being, such as sex or sperm implant, etc…The one that was like Adam was created, I imagined the scenario where you were just dropped form the sky. or purpose(s)…

    2b/ I don’t even consider Jesus conception as miracle. The simply reason is that because it was not independent, or on its own sovereignty. It depends on “Virgin” Mary and poor Joseph.

    Then I would like you to try again, if you think you were created by God: By which mean?

    ps: Please do not add the preaching of how you found God. I know how God was supposed to be found.

    [quote]
    [i]Originally posted by bowang[/i]
    I never said i know it all. i am actually learning as i am answering your questions. no i was not born of immaculate conception although a virgin birth is certainly possible and has happened in nature. i am sure my mom and dad like all people had sex and 10 months later, i was born. thats the normal way to conceive by the way. so all my life i knew my mom and dad as my creator, “my preah” as dictated by the buddha which i was a firm believer in. i was an ambassador of the khmer culture and traditions in fact.

    i grew up not knowing Christ. But since God has a plan above my comprehension, he slowly reeled me back to him by breaking me down completely. So when i was down and out ready to give up. he revealed Himself for the first time in my life to be a true and merciful God. i truly felt Love for the very first time. i felt a purpose. after that, he taught me things i never knew or considered before. God had his creations in mind before they were even created. he then created them, and they eventually returns to him like a lost sheep in the wildness as he is calling for his stock. Creation happens in God’s mind, and then it is manifested in the physical material world, when that breaks down, it goes back to the Sources. it is a constant process or refinement.

    [/quote]
    [/quote]

    #352491
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    [i]Originally posted by khemrin[/i]

    When I asked you, I was not looking for right and wrong answer, but honest, the fact of the matter answer. A fairly easy and straight forward question. The one that you should ask yourself and answer to yourself Honestly…And when you find the that honest answer, go and honestly apologize to your parents, for your misunderstanding.

    It is not only about the sex and ten months later. They gave you flesh. They gave you blood. They gave you life and they would die for you, so you can live. They might not be as cool as you would like them to be, but they are your creator. Tell them so, before it is too late.

    [quote]
    [i]Originally posted by bowang[/i]
    that is the definition of a miracle. something supernatural, out of this world. lets agree to disagree. i answered faithfully and i apologies if they’re not clear enough. forgive me khemrin.

    [quote]
    [i]Originally posted by khemrin[/i]

    1/ I was not talking about Komoto dragon ,when I asked you who created you?

    2/ When you said you were created by God, I was expecting MIRACLE.

    2a/ When I talked about miracle, I am talking about the one that happened within its own sovereignty. No other factors, natural or technology or human or being, such as sex or sperm implant, etc…The one that was like Adam was created, I imagined the scenario where you were just dropped form the sky. or purpose(s)…

    2b/ I don’t even consider Jesus conception as miracle. The simply reason is that because it was not independent, or on its own sovereignty. It depends on “Virgin” Mary and poor Joseph.

    Then I would like you to try again, if you think you were created by God: By which mean?

    ps: Please do not add the preaching of how you found God. I know how God was supposed to be found.

    [quote]
    [i]Originally posted by bowang[/i]
    I never said i know it all. i am actually learning as i am answering your questions. no i was not born of immaculate conception although a virgin birth is certainly possible and has happened in nature. i am sure my mom and dad like all people had sex and 10 months later, i was born. thats the normal way to conceive by the way. so all my life i knew my mom and dad as my creator, “my preah” as dictated by the buddha which i was a firm believer in. i was an ambassador of the khmer culture and traditions in fact.

    i grew up not knowing Christ. But since God has a plan above my comprehension, he slowly reeled me back to him by breaking me down completely. So when i was down and out ready to give up. he revealed Himself for the first time in my life to be a true and merciful God. i truly felt Love for the very first time. i felt a purpose. after that, he taught me things i never knew or considered before. God had his creations in mind before they were even created. he then created them, and they eventually returns to him like a lost sheep in the wildness as he is calling for his stock. Creation happens in God’s mind, and then it is manifested in the physical material world, when that breaks down, it goes back to the Sources. it is a constant process or refinement.

    [/quote]
    [/quote]
    [/quote]

    #352501
    Avatar of bowang
    bowang
    Participant

    i think most dreams are convoluted pseudo “realities” in the astral realm mashing together making little sense to our logical mind. true reality only exist in this conscious world where we have free will to make the choices which solidifies and manifests the “possibilities” into something concrete and real. visions comes from a realm higher than the astral and are not just “potential” floating around. it is set in stone coming from God and is outside of our free will. our dreams doesnt come true and we often times forget them. but a vision is clear sticks with you and changes your life, it realigns your reality to fit it. you free will conforms to it because it comes from a powerful source.

    [i]Originally posted by hanzze[/i]
    What do you think: Is a dream (when you are asleep) the reality or when you are awake, or could it be that only one dream follows the other? Never be awaken or sometimes a little more. In which mind state you think we could be more awaken?

    #352511
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    I don’t understand. One time you talk about free will and one time of a great power. One time you say a dream is not reality one time you say that a dream is more that the normal reality. For me it seems to be a simply choice of your, a choice of which fits better to your present dream.

    Maybe you can explain it in more detail, without mixing things together. Now you are talking about a vision. For me it seems like if you dream something that you like it is a vision. But actually there is no different. Dream is dream, a vision is a dream, dream is a vision. The one who label it is you, the free will(y) :-) So your dream (vision) is your dream (vision), but where is reality? Things do not get more right when labeling them. So what is the different between dream and reality, what are the attributes of the one and the other.

    [Message last modified 10-07-2011 02:52am by hanzze]

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