Interesting article about Pol Pot (untold story)

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  • #1145401
    Avatar of bEeFVWCorrado
    bEeFVWCorrado
    Participant

    I know alot of people blame pol pot for everything that went wrong. He is the scapegoat for the genocide that happened during his regime. I mean, it is his regime, so everything that happened during that time must be his fault…he must have issued all the order to kill right? Maybe not.

    So who “else” committed genocide on Khmer besides the scapegoat, Pol Pot? How about Hun Sen, who was a Khmer Rouge soldier himself. Some people say the Hun Sen regime is less violent and much more merciful than Pol Pot. Is it really?

    Why isn’t Hun Sen put on trial at the Khmer Rouge tribunal? Why did Hun Sen try to stall the trial? BECAUSE HE TOOK PART IN THE ATROCITIES!

    We blame Pol Pot without even hearing his side of the story. He was not even convicted in a trial yet…and we already blame him for everything…because always we remember is “the Pol Pot era where millions died.” Could one man have acted alone? A man who loved his country so dearly? Who else called for the murder of Khmer on “behalf” of Pol Pot?

    Some blame Pol Pot for attacking Vietnam…say he was paranoid about Vietnam’s attempt to take over Cambodia…was he paranoid or was he not? Did the KR actually saved Cambodia? Was China also trying to take indoChina? Did the Chinese blackmailed the Khmer Rouge with the “fake” alliance?

    This is also an interesting article. I’m not saying it support or disprove my statement above…but it does raise some issues…on who acted with who. Its from different point of view…

    Check out this article: http://www.phnompenhpost.com/TXT/comments/polpot2.htm
    “The Vietnamese had long since learned, at their own expense, how the reins of the Cold War were not in their hands, and not even in the hands of their Soviet sponsors. Their ruling class kept cool and finally won Cambodia.”

    “Indeed Nixon and Brezhnev had decided during secret negotiations from 1968-72 (a minor southeastern “Yalta”) that China deserved a slice of the Indochinese cake, specifically Cambodia, in the ancient outdated logic of the vassal state.”

    “For sure the Cambodian tragedy needs a new historical approach within the frame of the tactics and strategies of the Cold War, whose legacy seems now, more than 20 years later, ripe for a revisited and neutral analysis.

    A tribunal on the so-called “genocide” cannot properly judge the Khmer Rouge and Pol Pot without first dismissing the Cold War lies and “face values” that brought them to power.”

    [Message last modified 08-24-2005 09:12pm by bEeFVWCorrado]

    #1145403
    Avatar of HutMYKdut
    HutMYKdut
    Participant

    Old news, also and very bias. Yes, there were lots of facts in there that can be confirmed by other courses, but he goes off on a tangent and starts assuming things (or someone is TELLING him to assume these things) based on what he finds. Remember this is 1998, and its a paper in Phnom Penh. A lot of propoganda going on.

    ” A tribunal on the so-called “genocide” cannot properly judge the Khmer Rouge and Pol Pot without first dismissing the Cold War lies and “face values” that brought them to power.

    This is where I have a HUGE problem with him, and why I question this writer. He says “SO CALLED “genocide”". Those words were chosen very carefully, and the word “genocide” is even in parenthesis.

    Are you f’king kidding me? No doubt THERE WAS A GENOCIDE, its not a question. Without a doubt, Pol Pot and the KR army were the ones that systematically murdered their own people. They are fully responsible for murdering their own people whether they were ordered to by another government or not. Are others responsible for aiding and minipulating the Pol Pot and the KR, yes. But the blood wasnt on their hands, they “helped” him come to power, but Pol Pot was the one that chose all of those peoples fates.

    #1145405
    Avatar of HM_SAM
    HM_SAM
    Participant

    was such a mess…all the dirty politics from everywhere. The average person out there may not know it and many of us can only assume this and that, but solid evidence isn’t there, however, I’m sure we all know some of the truth.

    I know that Pol Pot alone isn’t repsonsible for all of this…if you really think about it…what in the world would cause Khmer to kill khmer on this magnitude? Khmer somlab jeaht khmer doll tnak nirng…hmmmm. The way I see it, it’s not just the KR…a few other parties are involve…I’ll just leave it at that.

    [Message last modified 08-25-2005 01:56am by HM_SAM]

    #1145407
    Avatar of jaya_kampuchea
    jaya_kampuchea
    Participant

    [i]Originally posted by HM_SAM[/i]
    I know that Pol Pot alone isn’t repsonsible for all of this…if you really think about it…what in the world would cause Khmer to kill khmer on this magnitude? Khmer somlab jeaht khmer doll tnak nirng…hmmmm. The way I see it, it’s not just the KR…a few other parties are involve…I’ll just leave it at that.

    well, the mass killings really started when pol pot ordered his own comrades to be purged. just look at all those photos at tuol sleng. they all have the same uniform on. the eastern cadres.. probably somewhere between 100,000-150,000 were liquidated… the khmers in the forced labor camps most died due to starvation and diseases..

    #1145409
    Avatar of bEeFVWCorrado
    bEeFVWCorrado
    Participant

    [i]Originally posted by jaya_kampuchea[/i]
    well, the mass killings really started when pol pot ordered his own comrades to be purged. just look at all those photos at tuol sleng. they all have the same uniform on. the eastern cadres.. probably somewhere between 100,000-150,000 were liquidated… the khmers in the forced labor camps most died due to starvation and diseases..

    The details, pol pot ordered the killing of the traitors…those suspected of sobotaging the plan to purge Cambodia of the Viets. He wanted to get rid of those who was suspected of being traitors. According to my history book, Pol Pot ordered the killing of all Khmer Rouge membered that was trained in Vietnam.

    Fact, there were so many faction in the regime…lead to many chaos. But the original goal of the KR was to purge Cambodia of the enemy…which was vietnam and its spies. They were very nationalistic. You can see by the fact that their first priority was to send all the Vietnamese back to Vietnam….even anyone with Vietnamese mixed blood. Their purification philosophy were extreme, yes. But they weren’t in the business to kill Khmer.

    #1145411
    Avatar of bEeFVWCorrado
    bEeFVWCorrado
    Participant

    [i]Originally posted by HutMYKdut[/i]

    ” A tribunal on the so-called [b]“genocide”[/b] cannot properly judge the Khmer Rouge and Pol Pot without first dismissing the Cold War lies and “face values” that brought them to power.

    Are you f’king kidding me? No doubt THERE WAS A GENOCIDE, its not a question. Without a doubt, Pol Pot and the KR army were the ones that systematically murdered their own people.

    I think the author meant that, using genocide to judge the KR is somewhat misleading…one must also look into who participated in the killing. He explain who participated in the event leading up to the genocide in the meat of his article. What he’s saying that, if you’re gonna use genocide, you might as well include the soviet, chinese, vietnamese, etc. as well. Because the Khmer Rouge was a scapegoat and a front for all the chaos that lead to the “genocide.”

    #1145413
    Avatar of HutMYKdut
    HutMYKdut
    Participant

    Its not misleading at all. Ultimately, who were the ones doing the killings? Exactly my point.

    #1145415
    Avatar of bEeFVWCorrado
    bEeFVWCorrado
    Participant

    [i]Originally posted by HutMYKdut[/i]
    Ultimately, who were the ones doing the killings? Exactly my point.

    Was it the Khmer Rouge? Or was it? Who ordered the killings? Was it the Khmer Rouge? Or was it? That is why we have to look at the details…think about it, why isn’t Hun Sen being tried in the tribunal? Why isn’t his master, the Viet, being tried? Didn’t they play a role…a BIG role? We can also blame the KR soldiers for taking orders right? Then why aren’t Hun Sen on trial? How come they’re putting the leaders on trial? Man, the trial haen’t even onfirm what is right or wrong yet. But hey, our fortune teller says its the Khmer Rouge who did it! Who needs a trial when we have fortune tellers?

    #1145417
    Avatar of HM_SAM
    HM_SAM
    Participant

    about the death due to execution, famine, and epidemics…

    I’m refering to something else, I know I didn’t make it clear, but I’ll leave it at that. For those who are look far beyong Pol Pot…I’m sure they have something else in minds too.

    [i]Originally posted by jaya_kampuchea[/i]
    well, the mass killings really started when pol pot ordered his own comrades to be purged. just look at all those photos at tuol sleng. they all have the same uniform on. the eastern cadres.. probably somewhere between 100,000-150,000 were liquidated… the khmers in the forced labor camps most died due to starvation and diseases..

    #1145419
    Avatar of HutMYKdut
    HutMYKdut
    Participant

    Hun Sen WAS a KR soldier. He happens to be the prime minister of the country, and even though he was apart of the party that commited the aweful crimes, he was not a commanding officer, so in international courts, he has no commited any war crimes. If they were going to convict based on relations, then the King would be on trail also.

    Pol Pot ordered the killings. The soldiers wouldnt listen to anyone else. China helped put Pol Pot to power, and simply turned their back, letting Pol Pot do what he had to do. Even IF (I do not believe he was ordered to do anything, he murdered his people on his own account), Pol Pot was ordered to murder all of those people, he still had a choice. He did NOT have to take those orders.

    At some point, how did the KR even think its a war? Isnt there a moral issue involved? Theyre killing innocent people and they happen to be their own people. No one is responsible for pulling the trigger but them. Pol Pot (Khmer) led the KR. That is a fact. Being a soldier is one thing, but before you are a soldier, you are a man, with your own mind. In this case, Pol Pot chose to slaughter his own people, whether it was an order from another leader or on his own account, it doesnt matter. Ultimately, he lead other Khmers, and those Khmers systematically killed other khmers. That is called genocide. The blood was on the KR hands. That is a fact.

    #1145421
    Avatar of omportevy
    omportevy
    Participant

    [i]Originally posted by HutMYKdut[/i]
    Old news, also and very bias.

    Bias? The journalist is not biased at all. He started a “Save Pol Pot” fund!

    Mr. Beef and Khemara15 see eye-to-eye on the current regime but when it comes to Pol Pot and the KR, Mr. Beef is on his own and on a slippery slope.

    If Mr. Beef is not careful, he is going to be accused by a few Kcers of having KR family connections. Someone has already written that he and Khmerkroms would be the first to join the KR.

    I have seen execution orders signed by Nuon Chea to kill people at S-11.

    Among the victims were Hu Nim and Hou Yuon who were more moderate Communists and who were as nationalistic as Pol Pot. Hou Yuon spoke against the evacuation of Phnom Penh and was the first one among the leaders to be arrested, tortured and killed in Tuol Sleng.

    Most of the 2 million died from starvation, disease and exhaustion. Who are the people and who in particular is behind this Moha Aschar (Most Awesome) Vision of a pure society based on slave labor (all the New People), terrorized by brainwashed automatons who consider Angka to be their only parents?

    No one is disputing Pol Pot’s nationalism which borders on jingoism and his paranoia on anything Vietnamese? Oh yes, the Chinese are OK because they are so far away and they are not the traditional enemies.

    Did all the KR trained in Vietnam govern the whole country and reduced all the New People to slave labor? Did they try to sabotage Pol Pot’s vision by carrying out summary executions? Where is the evidence? Or were they looking behind their backs all the time for fear of being killed, like the Khmer Vietminh were even before Phnom Penh fell?

    Why should anyone be sorry for Pol Pot?

    Giorgio Fabretti, Italian journalist and founder of the “Save Pol Pot” fund, argues that the death of Pol Pot represented a huge loss to world history. Challenging the accepted view of the Democratic Kampuchea tragedy, he writes that “Pol Pot’s evil inferiority can be seen as a ‘technical’ one, and not an individual matter of bad faith or bad intentions.

    http://www.phnompenhpost.com/TXT/comments/polpot.htm

    #1145423
    Avatar of HutMYKdut
    HutMYKdut
    Participant

    This is not the first time that Beef has mentioned something like this. The last time he did it, he directed more blame on the Viets. The more he reads, the more jaded his mind becomes.

    #1145427
    Avatar of bEeFVWCorrado
    bEeFVWCorrado
    Participant

    [i]Originally posted by HutMYKdut[/i]

    [b]Pol Pot ordered the killings[/b].

    How do you know? Who told you that?

    [i]Originally posted by HutMYKdut[/i]
    The soldiers wouldnt listen to anyone else.

    Trust me, they would…especially if they have hope of getting money or moving up the ranks….gaining power. Hun Sen is a prime example.

    Have you seen Star War episode 3, revenge of the sith? Similar betrayal where the soldier jsut turn their back at a momment’s order. The fact is that there is no way pol pot could have commanded every battallion in cambodia…impossible. The most likely scenario is that he gve orders to his lower commandin officers…the people who are put in charge of each group…they tell the soldiers what to do. This leaves a big loophole for “fake” orders…isolated activities like Abu Ghraib.

    Then, you have to factor in that traitors such as Hun Sen. The Viet “khmer rouge” imposters. The faction that was trained in Vietnam.

    When the REAL khmer rouge did kill any Khmer, it was paranoia…because it was hard to tell who was the traitor…so they had to clean house within the ranks. They also look to kill those who were city officials of related to the official to clean house (because there were some city officials working for the Viet).

    [Message last modified 08-25-2005 11:16am by bEeFVWCorrado]

    #1145425
    Avatar of HM_SAM
    HM_SAM
    Participant

    as a matter of fact, The Khmer Rouge throughout the regime from 1975-79 rarely meet. It’s a mess! If you can recall from the movie “Killing Field” right when the Vietnamese invade the Cambodia, that Khmer Rouge guy that give his son to Dith Pran. He mentioned about the loose control the Khmer Rouge top leaders have over the regimes and the distrust they have among themselves.

    Kdut, I accept the fact that we khmer are soley responsible for the killing, but what beef is trying to tell everyone is the the dirty politics from third and forth party and so on that are involved. Pol Pot was the leader of the time, but he does not have control over all the Khmer Rouge field commanders. They rarely hold any formal meeting and their organization were loose or should I say “DISORGAINIZED”.

    Many of Khmer fail to look beyond Pol Pot.

    [i]Originally posted by bEeFVWCorrado[/i]
    Trust me, they would…especially if they have hope of getting money or moving up the ranks….gaining power. Hun Sen is a prime example.

    Have you seen Star War episode 3, return of the sith? Similar betrayal where the soldier jsut turn their back at a momment’s order. The fact is that there is no way pol pot could have commanded every battallion in cambodia…impossible. The most likely scenario is that he gve orders to his lower commandin officers…the people who are put in charge of each group…they tell the soldiers what to do. This leaves a big loophole for “fake” orders…isolated activities like Abu Ghraib.

    Then, you have to factor in that traitors such as Hun Sen. The Viet “khmer rouge” imposters. The faction that was trained in Vietnam.

    When the REAL khmer rouge did kill any Khmer, it was paranoia…because it was hard to tell who was the traitor…so they had to clean house within the ranks. They also look to kill those who were city officials of related to the official to clean house (because there were some city officials working for the Viet).

    #1145429
    Avatar of bEeFVWCorrado
    bEeFVWCorrado
    Participant

    [i]Originally posted by HM_SAM[/i]

    Many of Khmer fail to look beyond Pol Pot.

    Not only that bro…many of us don’t really know what pol pot did…except for associating his name with the killing field…and that automatically made him guilty of the genocide in their minds. Its alot of anger and a need to blame the nearest person to the problem. I admit that I also had a hatred for pol pot and sihanouk in the pasts…until my parent set me straight on what really happened in the politic arena. My parents were also people who was going to be killed…but escaped. Heck, they tried to tracked my mom down for a long time. But my parent didn’t use their anger to blame w/out analyzing the situation.

    Plus, we assume pol pot did it…w/out even giving him a trial and hearing all sides to the story? Who knows, Pol Pot might have been assasinated, to keep his mouth shut, to protected the REAL perpetrators…to protect those who were inolved: Viets, Americans, Chinese, Soviets, etc…

    #1145431
    Avatar of HutMYKdut
    HutMYKdut
    Participant

    Your mind is easily minupulated. You read an article, and your view flips just like a switch. You are using the word of a moron journalist to base your arguments. It figures, because morons think alike. Look what Ompotevy and I addressed up there, why are you ignoring it?

    Ok, why would Pol Pot be in hiding with other KR members if he was not guilty of anything?

    Even if your link it says that Pol Pot was the one in Power, in Cambodia. There were generals and men under Pol Pot that took orders from him, that is a fact. They ordered mass murders, and they were the ones that pushed everyone to the country side. KHMER ROUGES WERE KILLING KHMERS. How hard is that for you to understand?

    #1145433
    Avatar of bEeFVWCorrado
    bEeFVWCorrado
    Participant

    [i]Originally posted by HutMYKdut[/i]
    Your mind is easily minupulated. You read an article, and your view flips just like a switch. You are using the word of a moron journalist to base your arguments. It figures, because morons think alike. Look what Ompotevy and I addressed up there, why are you ignoring it?

    Ok, why would Pol Pot be in hiding with other KR members if he was not guilty of anything?

    Even if your link it says that Pol Pot was the one in Power, in Cambodia. There were generals and men under Pol Pot that took orders from him, that is a fact. They ordered mass murders, and they were the ones that pushed everyone to the country side. KHMER ROUGES WERE KILLING KHMERS. How hard is that for you to understand?

    HAHAHA typical hutmyKdut response. Read one article and flipped my views? Moron journalist? Incredible, anyone that try to take an opposite view, using evidence and facts, is a moron. But those who goes by personal opinion, anger, and fortune teller verdict opinions are the most credible right? Next time, I’m reading the national enquirer
    for my news!

    Brother, this is not the first article I’ve read. I’ve read numerous other articles and books. And just because Pol Pot was in hiding, he was automatically guilty? Would that work in court? You say he ordered the killings etc., where are your evidences? Oh yeah! I forgot that the tribunal has already determined that…not.

    Of course he was in power. But it don’t mean those who killed followed his orders.

    If I ask all those Khmer parent why do they believe Pol Pot killed their relative…and what proof they have that Pol Pot ordered it, do you think they have an answer? Their answer will probably be:

    “I saw it with my own eyes!”
    So you saw pol pot tell them? Please…

    “They all hate Khmer people cuz they’re crazy…”
    Hmmm…w/out any reason for why?

    “I just know it from my gut!”
    err…?

    “Sheddup, stop mocking me! I know it, gosh darn it!”
    ha…?

    #1145435
    Avatar of solster
    solster
    Participant

    ^beef do you think ah pot had the power to stop those killing?

    #1145437
    Avatar of HutMYKdut
    HutMYKdut
    Participant

    Actually, where is your evidence that he didnt order any killings?

    You say that youve read other accounts, but the last time you started this topic, you were blaming the Vietnamese for everything. Now all of a sudden, you read some morons article, and all of a sudden, your switching to Chinese, Viets, Americans, Soviets.

    It was already a known fact that there was tention between those nations in that region. You act as if you posted something new.

    Your “proof” is from 1998, and its also from a writer that obviously worked in Phnom Penh.

    Well, in Cambodia, MANY times, when the truth is written, people get killed. So writers write what they are told to write, to minipulate peoples beliefs, such as yours.

    The only thing that you have provided is how other nations were responsible for bringing Pol Pot to power. You have yet to find anything that says that China or Vietnam ordered these killings, but yet you refute physical evidence of Khmers killing Khmers.

    No, just because Pol Pot was in hiding does not make him guilty, but if he wasnt guilty, then why the hell was he in hiding?

    I suggest you take writtings like the one you posted with a grain of salt next time.

    Heres a good start for you:

    http://www.time.com/time/asia/asia/magazine/1999/990823/pol_pot1.html

    As you can see at the bottom, David Chandler was also the author of Brother Number One. I suggest you read that also. Its a political biography, im not saying that you need to read every word of it and believe, but at least read it so you could be the judge of the man Pol Pot for yourself.

    Thats just one writter, I could suggest more when you are done with that book.

    #1145439
    Avatar of bEeFVWCorrado
    bEeFVWCorrado
    Participant

    [i]Originally posted by solster[/i]
    ^beef do you think ah pot had the power to stop those killing?

    NO…I don’t think Pol Pot could have stopped it. Like Sam said, the revolution was too disorganized. There were too many Viet agents and traitors. It started as Pol Pot’s revolution…it turned out to be an all out civil war perpetuated by more than a single faction.

    It’s like you start one fire, some copycatters started 10 other fires around the area…and all the fires get classified into one fire…even tho they were “unrelated” in origin.

    Pol Pot was pretty much out of touch with the situation at ground level. He was busy dealing with the Viet, Mao, Americans, etc.

    #1145441
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    It was very messy politics back during the Khmer Rouge EraCold War EraVietnam WarChina vs RussiaVietnam FreedomCommunism scareCapitalism Scare, etc. But I think we do need to look beyond Pol Pot. This man did destroy a lot of Cambodia though it may not be his intention, but there are many others who helped him in the shadows of politics.

    #1145443
    Avatar of bEeFVWCorrado
    bEeFVWCorrado
    Participant

    [i]Originally posted by HutMYKdut[/i]

    Your “proof” is from 1998, and its also from a writer that obviously worked in Phnom Penh.

    Well, in Cambodia, MANY times, when the truth is written, people get killed. So writers write what they are told to write, to minipulate peoples beliefs, such as yours.

    The only thing that you have provided is how other nations were responsible for bringing Pol Pot to power. You have yet to find anything that says that China or Vietnam ordered these killings, but yet you refute physical evidence of Khmers killing Khmers.

    No, just because Pol Pot was in hiding does not make him guilty, but if he wasnt guilty, then why the hell was he in hiding?

    The writer is not Khmer. The writer is an Italian journalis,t Giorgio Fabretti (which you may already realized). The PP post just restate what he already proposed…most likely from Italy, in his own writing.

    What’s wrong with 1998? Does that make it less accurate? You can write bullsh*_t in 2005 and it’ll be no less bullsh*_t. Truth is written and people get killed? None of these people are Khmer citizen. The systematic killing of educated Khmer people was still evidenced even after the killing field. There were prison camps that was still opened…can you doubt its Vietnamese control? I have a family member who went to one of them. Before the pol pot era broke out, it was also noted that many Viets were being implanted in high governmental position in PP. Many Viets were also implanted in pol Pot’s regime to spy and sabotage. While pol pot try to cleanse cambodia of viet by exterminating the Viets from the population and government positions, the spies blackmailed pol pot…controlling the troops on the ground level, they order their own killing spree. Also, the lak of organization may mean that many of the action made by the soldiers were at their own descretion. These were not trained professional military personel with morals. Their action might relfect their own anger, rage, and hatred…and may not reflect pol pot’s orders.

    [i]Originally posted by HutMYKdut[/i]
    Heres a good start for you:

    http://www.time.com/time/asia/asia/magazine/1999/990823/pol_pot1.html

    As you can see at the bottom, David Chandler was also the author of Brother Number One. I suggest you read that also. Its a political biography, im not saying that you need to read every word of it and believe, but at least read it so you could be the judge of the man Pol Pot for yourself.

    Thats just one writter, I could suggest more when you are done with that book.

    Good start on Pol Pot’s biography…and that’s what it is. It doesn’t explain much of the politic that went on behind the scene. The guy just wrote a timeline on Pol Pot’s life…so what? Not only that, even from the title, his stuff is already biased against pol pot. If you think the article I posted is moronic…Chandler isn’t any less of a moron. I’ll give ‘em credit for acknowledging the puppet government.

    People think the Khmer Rouge woke up one day and decided to kill their own people. But, according to book I’ve read, there were alot of dirty political plays with the Viet, Chinese, etc…There were also much negotiation going on between Siahnouk, the Khmer Rouge, and those other countries. Obviously, the negotiation was unsuccessful…leading up to the turmoil.

    [Message last modified 08-25-2005 09:07pm by bEeFVWCorrado]

    #1145445
    Avatar of Sattadasa
    Sattadasa
    Participant

    Mr.Beef, do you think wouldve been in Khmer Rouge back in the day?

    #1145447
    Avatar of bEeFVWCorrado
    bEeFVWCorrado
    Participant

    [i]Originally posted by Sattadasa[/i]
    Mr.Beef, do you think wouldve been in Khmer Rouge back in the day?

    What do you mean?

    #1145449
    Avatar of HutMYKdut
    HutMYKdut
    Participant

    Good start on Pol Pot’s biography…and that’s what it is. It doesn’t explain much of the politic that went on behind the scene. The guy just wrote a timeline on Pol Pot’s life…so what? Not only that, even from the title, his stuff is already biased against pol pot. If you think the article I posted is moronic…Chandler isn’t any less of a moron. I’ll give ‘em credit for acknowledging the puppet government.

    People think the Khmer Rouge woke up one day and decided to kill their own people. But, according to book I’ve read, there were alot of dirty political plays with the Viet, Chinese, etc…There were also much negotiation going on between Siahnouk, the Khmer Rouge, and those other countries. Obviously, the negotiation was unsuccessful…leading up to the turmoil.

    Yes its a good START. Good start to his book. The POLITICAL BIOGRAPHY OF POL POT. Thats what I was getting at, I didnt think I would have to spell everything out for you.

    #1145451
    Avatar of Sattadasa
    Sattadasa
    Participant

    If you were a young adult during that era and had the chance to join Khmer Rouge, would you have taken the chance and done it??

    [i]Originally posted by bEeFVWCorrado[/i]

    [quote]
    [i]Originally posted by Sattadasa[/i]
    Mr.Beef, do you think wouldve been in Khmer Rouge back in the day?

    What do you mean?[/quote]

    #1145453
    Avatar of HutMYKdut
    HutMYKdut
    Participant

    If he was a young adult living in Cambodia at the time, no doubt he would be a Khmer Rouge. He believes everything he reads. Minipulating his mind would be easy.

    #1145455
    Avatar of bEeFVWCorrado
    bEeFVWCorrado
    Participant

    [i]Originally posted by Sattadasa[/i]
    If you were a young adult during that era and had the chance to join Khmer Rouge, would you have taken the chance and done it??

    I think that question is hard to answer. Because it depend on their information and knowldege we have. its easy for us to look back at the fault…see the propoganda in retrospect. But, when we are living in the propoganda, what will we believe in? In times where there are so many enemy agents, so many psuh for patriotism, who know what will drive our decisions. That goes for everybody, not jsut me. It also depend on what side of the fence u r in…what people you associate with. Because of that, I think your question is invalid.

    If I knew what I know now, the short answer is NO…because I’m not into killing, anyone. Some people are patriotic enough to bare arms. I am not one of them.

    What about you?

    #1145457
    Avatar of HutMYKdut
    HutMYKdut
    Participant

    Good start on Pol Pot’s biography…and that’s what it is. It doesn’t explain much of the politic that went on behind the scene. The guy just wrote a timeline on Pol Pot’s life…so what? Not only that, even from the title, his stuff is already biased against pol pot. If you think the article I posted is moronic…Chandler isn’t any less of a moron. I’ll give ‘em credit for acknowledging the puppet government.

    Also, you are comparing a scholar to a journalist. Theres HUGE difference. Your Italian journalist worked in Phnom Penh, it was his view, and it was published out of a small newspaper group out of Phnom Penh. Since ignorance is bliss, ill enlighten you. MANY journalists have been killed for reporting something that someone in the higher offices in Phnom Penh didnt like. Its happend many times in the past, and it will continue to happen.

    I read an account of this one journalist, a westerner, first one to ever cross the lines and get to interview Pol Pot. She was blindfolded and taken to his location. She had a few hours with him and basically said that he was nutz. Later on, they killed someone in her crew.

    The link I posted was from Time Magazine, a VERY reputable source. The writers credentials are real, and his accounts are based on facts that he found while studying documents and journals during the Khmer Rouges reign. He isnt bias, hes stating facts.

    #1145459
    Avatar of jaya_kampuchea
    jaya_kampuchea
    Participant

    I read an account of this one journalist, a westerner, first one to ever cross the lines and get to interview Pol Pot. She was blindfolded and taken to his location. She had a few hours with him and basically said that he was nutz. Later on, they killed someone in her crew.

    they killed someone in her crew probably because he saw something he shouldn’t have seen.

    #1145461
    Avatar of bEeFVWCorrado
    bEeFVWCorrado
    Participant

    [i]Originally posted by HutMYKdut[/i]

    Also, you are comparing a scholar to a journalist. Theres HUGE difference. Your Italian journalist worked in Phnom Penh, it was his view, and it was published out of a small newspaper group out of Phnom Penh. Since ignorance is bliss, ill enlighten you. MANY journalists have been killed for reporting something that someone in the higher offices in Phnom Penh didnt like. Its happend many times in the past, and it will continue to happen.

    False, the Italian journalist works for his newspaper in Italy. Obviously why he is an “Italian Journalist” right? The PP Post article is only a snippet of the man’s work…a reprint. So your whole arguement is thrown out right there.

    [i]Originally posted by HutMYKdut[/i]

    I read an account of this one journalist, a westerner, first one to ever cross the lines and get to interview Pol Pot. She was blindfolded and taken to his location. She had a few hours with him and basically said that he was nutz. Later on, they killed someone in her crew.

    The link I posted was from Time Magazine, a VERY reputable source. The writers credentials are real, and his accounts are based on facts that he found while studying documents and journals during the Khmer Rouges reign. He isnt bias, hes stating facts.

    Document seen? What about the unseen? Even CBS news get punked by false reporting. Fact seen by the western world are diff from fact seen by the people in the system…like the soviets. There’s a soviet journalist who also wrote about the Khmer Rouge…saying “things about the politic of the era that are not realized by the western world”

    You ever read “Brother’s Enemy” by Nayan Chanda (not Khmer)? He has more qualification than those journalists…he interview the Khmer Rouge, the Chinese, the Viets, King Sihanouk, etc…

    A journalist who call people “nut” is a journalist? Why don’t she tell us why they kill her crew? Did they violate some kind of agreement? There was another person who interviewed Pol Pot…and he said Pol Pot was nothing like what people portray him to be.

    #1145463
    Avatar of HutMYKdut
    HutMYKdut
    Participant

    Its funny how you question huge papers and reputable reporting, and scholars, but you seem to lean towards views of a man that no one has ever heard of, and has yet to prove anything.

    #1145465
    Avatar of bEeFVWCorrado
    bEeFVWCorrado
    Participant

    [i]Originally posted by HutMYKdut[/i]
    Its funny how you question huge papers and reputable reporting, and scholars, but you seem to lean towards views of a man that no one has ever heard of, and has yet to prove anything.

    Very funny indeed huh? How can one man discredit a whole news agency? Obviously, it happens. There are many times when credible news shows like 60 minute report misleading infos…how about the Bush national guard service document?

    I guess more popular view are always the right view…like “the world is flat” back in the days. Heck, didn’t the philosopher, Socrates, got killed for his views? He only became famous after his death.

    Nomatter how credible or big a news agency is…informaiton does not make itself easier to dicipher. False news will result in a huge false reporting from a big agency. While a small agency will jsut not be heard.

    #1145467
    Avatar of HutMYKdut
    HutMYKdut
    Participant

    Document seen? What about the unseen? Even CBS news get punked by false reporting.

    You cant compare CBS to Time Magazine. Time Magazine is apart of American Society, and is a highly regarded news reporting magazine.

    CBS is owned by a huge corperation, Viacom. That is why you get crap on the news sometimes.

    #1145469
    Avatar of HutMYKdut
    HutMYKdut
    Participant

    [i]Originally posted by bEeFVWCorrado[/i]

    [quote]
    [i]Originally posted by HutMYKdut[/i]
    Its funny how you question huge papers and reputable reporting, and scholars, but you seem to lean towards views of a man that no one has ever heard of, and has yet to prove anything.

    Very funny indeed huh? How can one man discredit a whole news agency? Obviously, it happens. There are many times when credible news shows like 60 minute report misleading infos…how about the Bush national guard service document?

    I guess more popular view are always the right view…like “the world is flat” back in the days. Heck, didn’t the philosopher, Socrates, got killed for his views? He only became famous after his death.

    Nomatter how credible or big a news agency is…informaiton does not make itself easier to dicipher. False news will result in a huge false reporting from a big agency. While a small agency will jsut not be heard.[/quote]

    No, dont put words in my mouth. Im simply just raising questions to your source. I take everything with a grain if salt and decide things for myself, I dont rely on 1 source and change my view dramatically based on 1 article (as you have done). Again, the last time you blamed the Viets, now after digging up old news, all of a sudden you think you see the light, and now its everyones fault.

    You have yet to address the fact that it was Khmers that were killing Khmers. Pol Pot had unrealistic goals, and his mistakes costed Cambodia many lives.

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